"Dot by Dot" A Story-rich Interview with Justin Elizabether Sayre

Hello, Beloveds! 

This is the premiere episode for Season Three!
Thanks for all your continued support! Speaking of support.. if you’re willing to help me reach my goal of 100 or more reviews, I would greatly appreciate a 5-star review!

In this premiere episode, I interview the legendary Justin Elizabeth Sayre!

Justin is a multi-talented writer, comedian, performer, and playwright. Known for their razor-sharp wit, insightful social commentary, and a deep love for camp and queer history, Sayre has made their mark across various mediums, including theatre, cabaret, television, books, and musicals. At the heart of Justin's live performance career is The Meeting—a hilarious and heartfelt variety show that serves as a modern-day homage to the bygone era of queer political activism. Justin is a committed advocate for LGBTQ rights.

In the interview, Justin discusses their journey, including their recent engagement and the pandemic's impact on their life. They reflect on their complex relationship with Catholicism and their current spiritual exploration towards Judaism. They share about the impact the AIDS epidemic had on their identity. We also get a glimpse into Justin’s introduction to the Radical Faeries and the origins of The Meeting. The conversation touches on the importance of community, the challenges of forging one's own path, and the value of passing wisdom and energy to future generations.

Justin’s Insta: https://www.instagram.com/justinelizabethsayre/?hl=en

The Meeting on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/OrderofSodomites

Connect with me! https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/

Transcript

Queerly beloveds. We are gathered here today for some juicy conversations about all things spiritually, queer and queerly spiritual. I'm Sylvia. Will gather rainbow, a spiritual life coach, retreat host with the most and a drag queen, and I'll be chatting with the most amazing folks, or simply sharings of wisdom on my own. If you like what I'm serving, please remember to subscribe so we can keep hanging out. All right, let's get super woo together in this spiritual AF, queer AF, cosmic container. And blast off. Hello beloveds, and welcome to the first episode of season three of queerly beloved. I am so excited to be back with you all. Every season is 25 episodes. So this one is our 51st episode, and I have loved working on every single one of them. It means so much to me to have you on the journey with me. And since this is the start of a new season, I'd like to make a small little request for support. So one of my big goals is to have 100 reviews of this podcast or more, and currently I have 88 so I'm so close. I'm super grateful for the folks who've already left one, but if you haven't, and you really enjoy this show and are willing to write me a five star review, that would mean so so much to me. Let's get into today's episode. So I am so excited that my first guest of the season is the legendary Justin Elizabeth Sayre one of my favorite radical fairies on the planet. So Justin is a multi talented writer, comedian, performer and playwright, known for their sharp wit, social commentary and a deep love for camp and queer history, Sarah has made their mark writing in so many different genres, from musicals to cabaret to theater to books to television, and at the heart of Sarah's live performance career is the meeting a hilarious and heartfelt variety show that serves in the homage to everything queer, from icons to activism. And we get into the creation story of the meeting in this episode, Justin is a committed advocate for the rights of LGBTQ people, and I was so thrilled to interview them. We start off trusting in the unknown and moving through uncertainty with peace and the challenge of that. And then we look at Justin's relationship and recent engagement, defend path, and we get to hear the story of that relationship where Justin was coming out of the pandemic and met them and felt this immediate click in a way they had never felt before, and Justin shares about the way this relationship has really supported them and helped them grow. We also get the story of out Justin, whose fairy name is Elizabeth Taylor, first came into contact with the radical fairies, and how they came up with the idea for the meeting, the first gathering they attended. We then look at the purpose and the value of the meeting and celebrating the queer community, while also taking the queer community to task, but in a way that folks can actually receive it. Our conversation then turns to Justin's reflections on growing up during the AIDS crisis and how it shaped their identity. We also look at their complex relationship with Catholicism, culminating in a pivotal moment of disenchantment with the church. And finally, we explore their current spiritual journey towards Judaism, and what resonates for them about that faith and the reasons behind their decision to convert. Justin ends this conversation sharing a piece of wisdom they discovered in college, reflecting on our place in a long continuum of lives and what our role is during this lifetime, in relationship to the larger line of existence these topics and so many more in this premier episode of season three of queerly beloved and joy. Hello, Justin Elizabeth, Sayre Welcome to queerly beloved, my dear.

Justin Sayre  3:55  
Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Wil Fisher  3:58  
It is always a pleasure. It was such a pleasure to see you at Destiny this summer and to get to experience your vibrant energy once again,

Unknown Speaker  4:11  
I appreciate it. Yes,

Wil Fisher  4:13  
it's always a pleasure to see you, and I have admired you and your work for many years now, and so it's such a gift to get to have this time together.

Justin Sayre  4:24  
Oh, well, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that very much. I'm happy to be here with you. Happy to talk through all of you know, God, above and below, however you feel, her, him, her, they, however you get it, you know, and a host of other things, a

Wil Fisher  4:40  
host of other things. Yes, let's, let's get into it. But before we do, I must ask you the question I ask all my hosts at the top of these interviews, which is, who are you in this moment, or how are you in this moment? But tell me by describing the perfect drag avatar that embodies that i. So you can take a moment or two, and it doesn't have to be like a RuPaul drag race drag queen. It could be any kind of Avatar that just describes who are you in this moment on this day at this time of your life?

Justin Sayre  5:15  
Who am I at this moment? Drag and it's a drag avatar. Yes,

Wil Fisher  5:21  
but, but answers in the past have been like a flower, you know, you know, you can, oh, wow, really, wow. And if you'd like, I can start, I can, I could give it a, yeah, please

Justin Sayre  5:32  
give an example of what this would be. Let me give it a God, unfortunately, I think I'm very literal as I was being like, what season two, you know,

Wil Fisher  5:44  
all right, so let's see. So me today, I am really feeling into the coziness of fall, and so I, you know, I'm like in all cream, you know, often, like my drag avatar kind of ends up being somewhat congruent with what I'm already expressing. And so I am this, kind of, like, creme fat tell I'm just, I'm like draped in, in off whites and creams, and I have my hair is kind of like a, like a strawberry blonde, everything is soft, and it's, it's, it's giving just like cozy, cozy fall vibes, but in these, these tones of, of creams, and I'd say, What? What is coming up for me in that is that I am, yeah, I'm ready to let go of summer. You know, I live in San Diego, and so summer is, like, a big thing here, and I'm ready to move into this more kind of, like cozy internal vibration, you know, not only, not only like being inside more, but like going inside myself and, and so, yeah, when I think about it, she's, she's, she's got all these creams, and she's got a softness, maybe it's a long, flowing cream dress that has kind of a nice texture to it. And now I'm seeing this, this dead orchid in front of me, and it's almost like this the texture of a fallen orchid.

Justin Sayre  7:22  
Oh, oh, that's very I think you have done me. I haven't even tried yet. No,

Wil Fisher  7:28  
come on. You know, give it a shot.

Justin Sayre  7:31  
I think I guess what? I well maybe I'll I don't know that I'm there, but we've been having a we've been having a conference. My partner and I have been having conversation. Because I was like, kind of feel like I need a new look on something. And she's like, and without even saying it, she was like, Katherine Hepburn, 60s. Katherine Hepburn. And I was like, that's kind of it. I just want, I want a turtleneck I can pull out wide leg floppy pants. Kids, you know, I want my knees up around my head so I can be contemplative. Yeah, I think that's what I aspire to be. I kind of want to have a simple elegance, and I think some of that is about letting go, which I don't do very well. So hopefully,

Unknown Speaker  8:32  
what do you

Justin Sayre  8:34  
help with that? I

Wil Fisher  8:35  
love that. I love that image, and I feel like it's very fitting for you. And when you talk about this letting go piece, though, what, what are you referring to there?

Justin Sayre  8:44  
I think there's a lot of, like, it's been interesting because I am this obviously kind of reads for the show. But, you know, like, there's, I've been trying to get more into meditation, because my mind is off and all over the place, and I find that it's very hard. I find that it's very hard to kind of relax into a place of I'm just going to trust that it'll happen, or I'm just going to kind of let go and let it work out as it's supposed to be. I I've come up or, or figured out ways I think, like a lot of creative people, to kind of like, Oh, if I just do this, if I just, if there's some sort of maneuver, or or work harder, or do all these things that perhaps that will, that will work, or that will kind of get you the exact result in the exact way that you need or think you need, and, and I'm trying to kind of come from a. Centered place of like, okay, let's just, you know, show up. Continue to show up, continue to do the things you need to do. It's not about it's not about results, as much as it is about the kind of silent chipping away at things. So I have great trouble with that, because I want it now, and I want to know how I want it, you know? So I'm trying to learn that.

Wil Fisher  10:34  
Yeah, definitely a lesson that resonates with me, and I imagine most people, especially those who are on a less conventional path, those who are forging their own way. You know, I think, are folks who are working for big corporations or have very spelled out careers, especially they aren't coming up against that challenge as as often, perhaps as those of us who are forging our way. And, yeah, I mean, what comes up for me is this, this quest for peace in the process, like, how can I just be at peace with the unknowing and the uncertainty and the the mystery of it all, and how can I joyfully approach it, regardless of the knowing well,

Justin Sayre  11:24  
and it's also, you know, it just comes. There's so many surprises along the way they I mean, so much of my own career has been about surprises, and that's kind of that's come to the fore, even in my relationship, you know, engaged, we're getting married. And and I'm often in these situations, or I've been in a lot of these situations. Once you announce you're getting married, everybody wants to know what the wedding's going to be. Everybody has plans for you and all these things. And there's all these questions about, what did you imagine? What did you I just never, I just never imagined. I never imagined it. It was never something that was on my radar. I didn't, I don't know that it was necessarily in a pessimistic way, but it was certainly kind of, oh. I just never imagined that that would be the path, and now that it is, it's like, that sounds fine, that sounds nice, you know, because I don't have a kind of a learned history or a learned fantasy of what is the day is supposed to be at all, I'm coming to it totally kind of blank and, and, and, but also, you know, kind of leaving room for the surprises that come up with being in a relationship. And you know, when we talk about when you are kind of, when you are kind of forwarding your own path, it's, it's been amazing to me. It's been amazing to me how much you really learn from relationships of like what you're doing and and and who you are, in the sense that you know you, especially as queer people, I think we are really forwarding our own stream. In that way, my marriage will look nothing like my parents because I'm getting married 20 years after they got married. Do you know, you know, my parents were in their early 20s, my you know that was just not, I wasn't doing that and and my life experience and my expectations, and the fact that, you know, will, if we do decide to have children, and it'll be a lot of planning and paperwork rather than, you know, a crazy night at a Fleetwood Mac concert. So it just, it's, it's so different and and it comes with its own set of challenges and its own set of rules. But I find that when you're you know, like with anything, you're willing to go to the deep places of questioning or the deep places of not knowing, because you really care about the outcome, so it's okay to be like, Oh, I don't know. We're figuring it out. You know, as with anything creative, as with any career things, you kind of get to a place where like, oh, well, I just have to be true to what this experience is, and that's the best we can do. You know, yeah, that sounds

Wil Fisher  14:45  
like a good path to peace in the process. And it's one of those simple solutions that's very difficult to achieve.

Justin Sayre  14:53  
Oh, absolutely, very difficult. Very, very difficult.

Wil Fisher  14:58  
So we'd have a couple of. Follow up quick. Well, finish that thought, yeah, and I do have follow ups

Justin Sayre  15:03  
well. And I think you also find, as with anything, there's so much we get, so much messaging about so many things where you're supposed to be, where you're supposed to be doing it, etc, that it's you have to really chip away at those things and find your own. If you're going to really define your own path, you have to find you really have to forward it yourself. You really have to find it. And that means, you know, seeking other teachers, seeking other examples. Maybe there are no examples, maybe you're in total unknown territory, and then those moments really kind of only make the next right move, you know,

Wil Fisher  15:51  
yeah, and sometimes it's getting all those examples and those teachings, but then letting them all go, oh sure, coming back to your own self. I feel like something I'm sitting with right now is like an over, like consuming too much, and like not giving myself enough space to just be to like be bored, like I like, want to give myself more permission to just be bored and to be in silence, and to from that silence, not even been meditating necessarily, but like, just be bored, like, see what happens in that space, you know. So, yeah, first of all, were you actually conceived on the night of a wild Fleetwood Mac concert?

Justin Sayre  16:35  
I think it was, I believe, I believe it was Crosby sales and ash, because it's a little cooler, but was one or the other.

Wil Fisher  16:46  
I think Crosby Stills and Nash is cool too. I love that. I also love you, even just planting the seed of possibility of children, gosh,

Justin Sayre  16:56  
oh my God.

Wil Fisher  16:57  
What a dream.

Justin Sayre  16:58  
I love that possibility. Who knows, who knows, who knows, and

Wil Fisher  17:03  
so I'm curious what you mentioned all this growth that you've gotten to experience as a result of this somewhat surprise relationship and now engagement. And I'm curious what you can reflect on as some of the lessons, some of the things that you have learned, or some of the ways you have grown, or some of the value of being in this process called a relationship.

Justin Sayre  17:31  
Well, I think that. I think I've learned quite a few things. One of the first things is, I think it was the perfect antidote to where I had come out of the pandemic. I'd gone into the pandemic being I was in LA, living in LA, and I wasn't as social as I would have liked to be in LA. I kind of shrunk in LA, and I felt it. And then I was sort of getting out of that and feeling pretty better about it. I done a play of mine, and it had been a success. And I, you know, I was, I felt a little bit better, and then the pandemic happened, and was, oh my goodness. And it really, it was, it was spiritual, very devastating, because I, I kind of crawled into myself in a way that I hadn't totally expected. I was I, I was still seeing I saw people very rarely. I was petrified of folks and the world I knew had just shut down and in the turmoil of that, after kind of a year and a half of it, really, I made the decision that, you know, if, if things go badly again, I don't want to be in LA simply because I just, I hadn't felt at home there even years been there. I built, I built a nice life, but I I really miss New York, yeah. So I took the challenge and I drove across country, and I was able to help my mom, who was having a surgery, and, and that was really a nice thing to be able to do. And then moved to New York, found an apartment, moved to New York, and, and, you know, was kind of starting making the New York rounds again and realizing that I was a very different person that that, you know, I'd kind of wanted to move back to the New York I had left seven years. That's not the case. And, and also all the changes that. Happened to me during the pandemic had also happened to everybody else in various ways, in in various extremities. And then I, you know, I met this person. I met my partner, fempath, and it kind of clicked in a way that I had never, really never experienced. And there were, of course, challenges. There were of course, you know, things we had to kind of come around to. But what I started to notice immediately was I had really kind of neglected a side of myself that was social. I neglected a side of myself that needed people. I neglected a side of myself that that would like to and fed off another person's energy that liked to discuss ideas, that like to, you know, show somebody something I thought was amazing, or that that had been diminished in the pandemic because I had felt so kind of put out by a world catastrophe. If that can be equally kind of insightful and selfish, totally selfishly good. On the other side of that, I found that there were, there was, like a whole host of people to connect to, and it felt really nice to connect to people again and and that there were perceptions now about me, or, you know, I feel it in certain ways. You know, I went to a friend's party recently, and there were a whole host of straight couples there, and suddenly that I had kind of like, Oh, I'm engaged for getting married, we're doing this thing. I had a lot more clout with these straight people than I had ever had before, and I resented the hell out because I thought, Oh, you just think I'm part of your team. And I and and what I what I found is that I was, what's been amazing, and also, I think, a source of difficulty, is that everything in in, I think in my life, previously, I had a tendency to kind of pull everything in and keep everything in. And there were moments of kind of explosion, or whatever, expulsion, in a way. And now being with a partner, who you sleep in the same bed with, who you're you know, you get up and have coffee with you. You're, oh, okay, how are we going to do the dish? How are we going to navigate the dishes in the bathroom and the life the garbage and love and dates and family and all those things. There's not as much room for you to just go internally, because if you are, you're not really being a part of the world anymore, and you're not really even being a part of the world you're trying to create. So you have to show up. And showing up is, you know, showing up with all the ugly, showing up with all that, I don't feel good about this, and I don't, you know, and, and I'm very fortunate in that I have, I found somebody who loves me in spite of all but also loves me for it. Sometimes, yeah, like, you know, we'll come back and I'll be like, and she doesn't know what she's doing. My partner's like, oh yeah, I love what you're fixing. People you've just met, you know, like, but also, you know, just really supportive and supportive of of me trying to get out there, me trying to kind of find my footing again, which four years out, I still, I still find that I'm, I'm recovering from,

Wil Fisher  24:35  
yeah, you know, thanks for sharing all that. It's beautiful. What I really hear in that is this, this calling into engagement with the world. It's like calling you into consistent engagement with life. And in a way, the other word that came up for me was like, in a sustainable way, in a way, it's like, oh sure, this is, this is how we're gonna be now. Yeah, you know, because it is so supportive, because it is so unconditional, and what a gift, what a beautiful gift that you both get to give to each other. You know that it is reciprocal and and something that came to my mind and my heart as you were sharing that story, and I, you know, only met fempa That once on the mountain, so I don't know the two of you very well, but I still believe this is true, which is a a beautiful blessing you gave me once, we were on a little boat, a little canoe, on the on the pond in Eastern Mountain, and we were, we were with keto and my boyfriend at the time, Nolan, and we may or may not have not, or I don't know if Nolan was there, to be honest, but we may or may have not consumed some psychedelic treats. And we were having this little evening, this beautiful evening, and you looked at me, and you said, the world you looked at me in reference to my partnership at the time with Nolan, which was a beautiful partnership. You looked at me and you said, the world needs your love. The world needs the love of the two of you. And it was so powerful that it still sits with me today, even though I'm not in that relationship anymore. It still really, really sits with me. And it's a moment that I've never forgotten, and I want to just to sing it back to you. You know that appreciates your love with funpath and that we get to receive such blessings from it. So thank you.

Justin Sayre  26:32  
I appreciate that. I will say for the most part, you know you I was, I was talking to my friend, I was saying, genuinely, people seem pretty happy for me. You know, you get into like, people start dating someone. You're like this, oh, God, we're going to be sitting with this for a long time. You know, people seem to be kind of like, oh, that's you seem that seems nice for you. That's a nice feeling.

Wil Fisher  27:04  
I love that. I love that. So let's get into some fairy stuff. Because I know a lot of radical fairies listen to this, and a lot of the radical fairies just love you and adore you. And so they're going to want to hear some radical fairy chat. And so I'd love to hear how the radical fairies came into your life, and the way they impacted you, and maybe particularly your your your spiritual life. Since this is a podcast that that looks at that, I'm curious if how, yeah, the fairies play into into your journey

Justin Sayre  27:38  
in general. Uh, I started coming to the fairies now, right around my Saturn Return, to be honest, cool I had, I was an actor in New York. I I had had a series of auditions that I thought were going to kind of take me into a a different realm, you know. And I was in last, last callbacks for everything, and I didn't get any of the jobs, and I was devastated, really upset about it. And I in the kind of way that you do in your 20s, you kind of, you'd make a lot of all or nothing statements like, well, I'm no good. I can't do this. I'm going. I have two options. I could be a really good actor or I could be a really good gay person, and I don't know that I'm good at either one, so I might as well be a better gay person. So I I was kind of looking for a community that would would mirror what the things that were important to me. It wasn't in bar culture I had already kind of dipped my foot into not drinking. So that was changing for me. I I didn't really know where. And then I read something about the fairies. And I thought, oh, that sounds really interesting. I read a book on Harry hay, very interesting. And I started looking at fairy what, you know, where I could go, what, what that would be. I went to one potluck in New York where Agnes turned to me and said, Why aren't you a theory? And I was like, Oh, God, I don't know. And, and I was a little overwhelmed. And then I read that destiny, where we met was doing a Walt Whitman weekend, and I thought, Oh, well, that's a sign I love Walt Whitman. And I thought, that'll be marvelous. So I borrowed a tent from my friend was working at Columbia, and they had a tent loaning program. So he got me a tent. I you know, it was, I never done any of it. And I went up and I had a I had a. Really marvelous time. I connected with a lot of people. It was the first time that I could see intergenerational relationships that were not didn't feel predatory, that just felt gentle. I think I get longing for that in a way, there was sex happening, and I I felt I had my own feelings about that which I but which was mostly, mostly exclusion, but a self exclusion, not necessarily feeling really being excluded. And but I left, and I I was totally I was totally hooked, and actually, I came up with the idea for the meeting the first weekend I was at Tennessee, wow, work, yeah, I said to somebody, I said, Oh, would you come to something like that? And they were like, Yeah, that sounds fun. And, and then came up a few more times that summer. Well, wait,

Wil Fisher  30:57  
let's go on that little side trail. So you came out, like, what was the idea, and how did it pop into your head?

Justin Sayre  31:04  
What I said something to I was like, Oh, what if you did? Because the fairies was this secret gay something, you know? I was like, Oh, what if there was some secret gay organization that was kind of running the world, you know, and that this was their meeting, that I was the chairman, or the chairperson running at, and it would be a different, you know. And I it really laid out the whole idea, oh, beat we celebrate a different gay icon, and we'd have guests every month, and we do politics and social comment, we do it all, and, and I kind of ran through the whole thing and, and I remember standing in line waiting for our plate at Destiny and saying, Do you think you would come to that to the people standing around me? And they all like, Yeah, sounds fun.

Wil Fisher  31:55  
Amazing. Amazing. What do you think when you think about the meeting? I think it's such an incredible gift that you've given to the queer community of today. And I'm curious, like, what do you think is the what is, what are some of the the the values and the purpose of it? I mean, I could, I could say my my observations, but I'd love to hear what, what you have felt is the the, yeah, the value of the meeting.

Justin Sayre  32:26  
Well, I think, I think there was always an there was an emphasis on community, and there was even community in the audience. So I would start to see tables of people that would come together, that had met friends at the shows. Nice, that there was a community of artists who kind of floated around and gained audience from that, or kind of found things. I think there was also just an emphasis on this is not, this is not so much of so much of what we're fed by the media and fed by kind of mainstream gay identity, whatever that is, kind of looks a certain way, feels a certain way, feels awfully educational, feels awfully sanitized. Does doesn't, doesn't celebrate us, but also doesn't take us to task. And I think that what the show was in its best moments was both that it could be a celebration of like, oh, wow, we're kind of amazing. You know, where people are amazing, not only amazing for the lives that they live and the love that they make in the world, but also their expression of themselves and how hard won that oftentimes is, and how deeply felt that is and how wonderful to go through the experience of living and feel who you are so deeply rooted in yourself. Not everybody gets that with that. We're also victims of our time. We're racist and sexist, and we place too much emphasis on who has ABS and who doesn't, and all these, you know, there's a whole cavalcade of complications that come with them, but if you approach it from a celebration and then within that you can take it apart. I mean, one of the things I really loved about the meeting, and still love about I think my career, is people feel very comfortable to tell me when they disagree with me. And. And and I've had people vehemently disagree with what I had to say. And, yeah, those conversations have never really gotten to a place of like you should go kill yourself, or it's never kind of escalated in that way. What's been great is when I when that's been approached, I say, Okay, well, tell me what I tell me what I'm not hearing, tell me what I'm not seeing. And many times I could be like, That's a great point. That's a very valid point. Sometimes I can sit and argue and say, Okay, I don't agree with that, but that's what you think. And thirdly, I can kind of own from my own self of like, Oh honey, you know, like, I've gotten in trouble sometimes for saying things about like, bears or things like that. And they'll be like, Oh, well, you don't, you know, you're a self hating bear. I'm like, I, that's probably absolutely accurate, but, but it's not I, because that's because I'm making myself the butt of my own joke when I'm talking about that, I'm talking about my discomfort with a community, not that the community should be discomfortable, but I'm making fun of my limited something, you know, I'm making fun of like, when I talk about S M or something like that, I'm like, when do you not be like, you know, it's always fascinating to me, when I have friends are like, Oh, I'm a puppy. I'm like, how does that work? Are you probably all the time work, you know, and people, oh, you're judging puppies. I'm not, if that's what, if that's what makes the butter churn for you, then wonderful. I'm more fascinated and and honestly, it comes from a sense of, I don't know that I had that kind of commitment. I don't know if I could be a puppy. I really don't, it seems like a lot,

Wil Fisher  37:09  
you know, yeah, absolutely. And I think

Justin Sayre  37:14  
that doesn't come I think the thing that, the thing that I always wanted that there was less judgment than needed. There was more kindness in it, yeah. And that was, I think that was something that I was very proud of, in a way, that it was kind, it was kind

Wil Fisher  37:34  
and playful, yes. And I think that when, when you do, approach things with kindness and playfulness and that celebratory energy, there is more room for discussion, for exploring absolutely, yeah, so yeah, it's so beautiful and and so fun. And I also think that there's a lot of value in the piece around celebrating the icons and helping us remember our heritage and our history. Oh, sure,

Justin Sayre  38:07  
yeah, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know. I'm often the keeper of the keys for people. People kind of ask me like, Oh, do you know about this? Sure, yeah, I do. I do. And now, when they say, Oh, is there a book? I'll say, yes, you can go get my book, you know, yeah. I

Wil Fisher  38:25  
mean, that's not a bad rule, yeah,

Justin Sayre  38:30  
yeah, yeah. But that also comes out of, you know, that comes out of my own experience, really, you know, I think growing up in the shadow of the AIDS crisis will forever, forever change my identity. Not that I not that I lost individual people, yeah, but growing up in the wake of that, you know, we're of a similar age group, so yeah, I'm sure the first question, you know, the first question that anybody got when you were coming out is like, do you have AIDS? Or that's that it was so prevalent, oh yeah, in a way that it's not, it's not discussed in the same way now. Oh yeah. And, and the first image I ever saw the game person was someone dying of AIDS. Yeah, absolutely. So the loss of that community, the profound loss of so many people and such a such a such vibrancy, not that we lost everybody. We didn't. We certainly are lucky with the people that we have left. But you know, when I look at people like Leo Herrera or so many other people that are really mining that and trying to understand and trying to kind of build a bridge to a new generation. I under I understand that plight very personally, because it come up, it comes up for me now it came up for me. Then it. It's something that I don't mind handing the keys, but I don't. I guess the thing that I've learned more so than anything is that they're not my keys to hand. They're my keys to rent. And I go and say to younger people, here's somebody you might want to look at. Yeah, that might be helpful to you. They might not. You should know them for your own delight, but you don't. It is not your obligation to be well read, to be a gay person. Thank

Wil Fisher  40:30  
you. That's very generous. Yeah, it gets under my skin a little bit sometimes when there's the Oh,

Justin Sayre  40:37  
reverence, but they don't know who Elizabeth Taylor is. I

Wil Fisher  40:40  
got real mad as well. You should. I

Justin Sayre  40:43  
got real, real mad.

Wil Fisher  40:44  
So speaking of Elizabeth Taylor, which is your fairy name, let's go back to that story. Did you have anything else you wanted to share outside of that, that first weekend? Oh, no, no, no, that's good. Alvin, yeah, fabulous. Yeah. And then you know, you've, you've gone on to write the llamas play, which was one of the most magical. Well, you've written a few of the llamas plays, right?

Justin Sayre  41:06  
Yeah. Back to about four or five, wow, yeah. And so much

Wil Fisher  41:10  
magic that you got to bring, that we got to receive from that. Sure.

Justin Sayre  41:13  
I think I always think about doing another one, and then I box up or something. I'm not sure.

Wil Fisher  41:20  
Well, that would be a gift. Well, we you heard it here first, folks. Taylor, considering it, yeah, wow, that'd be amazing. Yeah, so let's kind of switch gears then. And one of the things that you shared with me when we were back at Destiny and we were enjoying a meal together was this path of Judaism that you've recently taken, and I'd love to hear any anything you feel moved to share around that and how that's impacting your your spiritual life. Yeah,

Justin Sayre  41:51  
well, I guess I grew up Roman Catholic, and I was very, I was personally very devout until I was about 19. I said a rosary every day until I was from 15 to 19, wow. Carried one in my pocket. Was really wow. And then I turned 19, and I went to St Pat's cathedral, and they were having confession, and I thought, oh, you know what, just as a lark, we're at the big you're at the big time, and you might as well get some services rendered. And I, and I was, you know, lost, 19 years old. I was, you know, who knew what I was going on, and I I wanted to know what God's path would be for me. So I go into this confessional and and this priest is already just so annoyed, which I found just why you should be happy of getting the business. So he said, I said, he said, How long has it been since your last confession? I said, Well, it's been. It's been a minute. And he said, Well, I'll just walk you through it. I said, all right. And I think he asked me about 10 questions, and eight of them had to do with sex. And I remember sitting there or kneeling there, as it were, and going This can't be. If this can't be what God's interested in, it just can't be. It really, if masturbation AI 19 years old, we're lucky I'm not masturbating right in this minute. If masturbation is the just everything or or this kind of damnation part. I I just can't imagine that God's that concerned with it. I would, you know, killing people, stealing a lot, there's many other things going on and, and I just was, I was shocked that these, these were the questions that were happening. And at the end he said, Do you have anything he gave me, you know, whatever my thing would go say to him, Hail Mary's and whatever. And at the end he said, Do you have any questions? And I said, Well, I just, you know, I came in here because I wanted, I I I feel like I have this calling. I feel like I have this thing to do in my life, and I want to know if God wants me to be on this path. I just I could have a sign or something. And this priest turns and goes, Listen, God's not a magician. Don't ask for too much. And that was it. And I walked out, and I said, this is not the place for you. Wow. You will never find the Insight you're looking for in that place. Wow as well. And I walked out, and I never, I never went back, never went back. Wow. And, uh. And Judaism had been on my radar for a while. I love the ritual. I felt I had a lot of Jewish friends when I was growing up. I went to a lot of bar mitzvahs and Bar Mitzvahs, and then probably around right before the fairies, I thought about converting, because I had, I again, it was this hunger for ritual. It was hunger for community, you know, and I got into it. And the fear was at that time that I was trading one kind of hierarchy for another. And I was, you know, I was a was a lapsed Catholic. It hadn't worked out for me, and now I was going to go and do this other thing, and it was going to be more of the same. And so I abandoned it then and and in the last few years, what became really prescient for me about a spiritual life within Judaism, or kind of re examining why I would kind of participate, was that I liked that Judaism was a religion about the immediate. It's about questioning how what we're doing in this world and how that there's not a tally system in the same way of like, oh, well, if you do these 10 good things, you'll get to heaven at the end. Yeah, it's more of a system of you should be doing good for the world, because that heals the world, because that's part of creating peace in the realm that you will know peace, yes, and that, and that, besides all that, besides kind of the immediacy of the religion, that there's a deep sense of questioning that they don't. You know, within the Jewish religion, nobody's kind of looking at everything and going, Well, that's it. I mean, there are there are Orthodox. There's a lot of Orthodoxy, but for the most part, so many people really, and even within orthodoxy, they're questioning it. They're reading it there that it is a religion of questions. How do we best do this? How do we how do we interpret this for this moment? How do we, you know, there's an intimacy with the scripture in a way that you don't get in Catholicism. You never really are asked to read anything they prefer. A few don't. So that became part of it. And I talked to some rabbis, I talked to some folks and who had converted themselves and and I, you know, I said, very seriously, I don't know. I know that it's the right thing for me at this moment. I don't know that I'm gonna be, you know, I don't know that I'm gonna be wearing a yarmulke, you know, you know. I don't know that that's the path. But I said, my partner asked, what is the, what's the most important thing? And I said, I don't, I don't know that I want to leave this world without those words. I don't. I don't know that I want to leave without a kanish being said. So I think there's something so deeply meaningful about that, that moment where you leave, wow, and that there's a prayer about asking God, I hope I did okay, wow, I think that's really where, where the most it hits me in the most way. And I want that

Wil Fisher  48:53  
beautiful. And how's it going? How's the process for you? Good. I

Justin Sayre  48:57  
started classes in three weeks. It's very new. And my I will say, my mother in law is she wants to throw me a Bar Mitzvah tomorrow. She's so hardy, I think, you know, my parents are,

Wil Fisher  49:14  
well, you actually get a Bar Mitzvah? Do you get Bar Mitzvah? I

Justin Sayre  49:18  
don't think so. And nor do

Unknown Speaker  49:20  
I walk? Okay, fair enough,

Justin Sayre  49:22  
I'm good. I'm okay, but, um, but we'll see. Let's see that's beautiful. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  49:29  
I've always had a real affinity for Judaism. I dated the rabbi's son. I've dated a number of Jewish boys, always with this desire that, you know, I would, I would end up converting as well, which may be maybe in my cards as well. But I hear you, you never know, but hearing you speak about it, yeah, definitely re inspires that, that flame for me. So thanks for sharing all that beautiful we got some great stories out of you. Any. More that you care to share, or any other pieces of wisdom that you would like to leave with the listeners who are just, I know, eating every, every morsel, every word that you're delivering today.

Justin Sayre  50:15  
Well, I'll leave you one with this. I used to say this, and it's so interesting to me, the things that come up for people early on. And I don't know why I felt this way, but my friend always reminds me of this. We were in college, so I was young, probably pre 20, and I I was I was I come home, I was very disillusioned with studying and whatever. And I came home from the library one night and I said, you know, we're part of a line, and when you zoom in on that line, that line is made up of individual little dots, no. And your job in the time that you are here is to take all the energy that's behind you and to transfer it forward so that you and everybody behind you can be an inspiration, can be a gift to the next person that has to be a.in front of you, and that your job in this time is to give people space to dream, to remember where you came from, and to make it easier for the next people to come and be who they are. And I, I was, I don't think I was 20 years old, and my friend just sat there like, what are you You know, what are you talking about. And I, I meant it at the time of being an artist, I thought, oh, it's I, I was so and still am very interested in the artists of the past, and very interested in lineage and those things. And I think sometimes I've been interested to that to the extent where I felt like it's hindered me, because I'm like, Oh, well, this person wouldn't do this, or Tennessee Williams wouldn't do this, or etc. But now I see it as I take all of them with me, and I move that energy through me and and creating the force that I am, the dot that I am, so that other people can do other things. You know, you light away. And I think that that's if I've ever had kind of a spiritual whatever that's been the thing

Wil Fisher  52:58  
beautiful you are. You are one powerful.oh let's hope shining so much light. Thank you. Thank you for being that and and for sharing that deep wisdom that came to you when you were in college. Like, what a gift. Oh, yeah, what a download. Thank you so much for sharing that and for all you shared today. Thank you for how you show up for this career community. I'm so grateful to know you and to have a connection, and so thanks for the time today, and so much love.

Justin Sayre  53:28  
Oh, absolutely. Thank

you for having me. What a wonderful gift. As always,

Wil Fisher  53:32  
it is a privilege, a pleasure and an honor to be with you all. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for being on this queerly beloved podcast. Journey with me, as I mentioned in the top of the show, if you're able to write me a five star review and help me get my goal I'd so appreciate that. Have a beautiful day. Check out Justin's work in my show notes, and you can check out my work there too be well, my beloveds. Oh my god, as beloveds, what a joy it was to be with you today. Let's hang out again soon. Okay? And if you can think of a friend who would benefit from hearing this, please share it with them, sending so much love and light to you today and every day until next time. Peace. You.