Bringing Consciousness into Kink with Shadi Terra

In this week’s episode of Queerly Beloved, I sit down with Shadi Terra, a Wild-at-Heart, Kink-positive, Relationship & Sexuality Educator who’s paving new pathways in the world of shamanic kink, conscious relationships, and transformational ritual. Shadi draws from a powerful blend of lived experiences and professional training to support personal and erotic empowerment, relational mastery, and self-awareness for individuals and groups alike.

Shadi’s journey began with a life-changing nomadic adventure, and we start there, exploring how they connected with their calling and met transformational teachers at Lake Atitlan, a place that also holds deep meaning in my own heart. From there, we dive into the world of cacao as Shadi shares insights on this gentle yet profound plant medicine and its role in emotional processing.

Our conversation then heats up as we discuss the power of ritual, especially fire rituals, before diving into the juicy world of conscious kink. Shadi shares how kink and BDSM, when approached with intention, can be healing and transformative, creating safe spaces to explore power dynamics and self-expression. We even explore our own imagined playful scenario to demonstrate the potential alchemy of conscious kink!

We wrap up with a look ahead at Shadi’s upcoming retreat, Conscious Kink at the Jungle Gayborhood, happening this November. This episode is packed with wisdom, warmth, and a bit of playful edge you won’t want to miss!

Click here to sign-up for Conscious Kink- https://junglegayborhood.com/conscious-kink-ritual/

(Be sure to mention this podcast, Queerly Beloved, or Wil Fisher as “where you heard of the retreat”). 

Learn more about Shadi here- https://www.terraviva.love/

Connect with Wil Fisher here- https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/

Transcript

Wil Fisher  0:03  
Hello. Shari Tara, welcome to queerly beloved, my dear.

Shadi  0:09  
Thank you. Thank you. Wil so good to be here. I am so glad to have you. It's been such a pleasure connecting with you and to finally get the chance to do this interview, just totally warms up my heart.

Yeah, I'm really glad to hear that, and I feel very honored, actually, that you're that you're inviting me to to appear here with you on the podcast.

Wil Fisher  0:33  
It is an honor and a pleasure for me as well. So where are you right now? Paint a little picture for our readers. We're not we're not doing this one on video, but we are connecting across the oceans. And yeah, tell us where you are before we jump into the first official question.

Shadi  0:53  
Yeah. So I'm here in Belgium, which is where I grew up, and I'm in a beautiful cottage next to a river and watching the leaves get more yellow every day. And, yeah, it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful autumn situation here I'm on little little holiday with my with my family.

Wil Fisher  1:17  
Yeah, I love that. I love seeing you pop up in different parts of the world, whether it's at Lake Atlan and Guatemala, or in Italy this summer, or at my old my old stomping grounds, Eastern Mountain. It's sweet to see your energy appear in these different sacred spaces. So yes, let's jump into it. Shall we? So I'll ask you the first question I ask all my guests, which is, who are you in this moment? But tell me by describing the drag avatar that embodies that. So if you'd like, take a moment to to breathe into this moment and and when you're ready share what you're feeling shared. Called to share.

Yeah,

Shadi  2:08  
what a question. So I'm definitely feeling very in kind of autumn like I'm a bit of a

a bit of a dark predator bird that's, you know, soaring, soaring above the forest. And, yeah, I've got, I feel like in the fantasy version of this bird I have, I have a rainbow tail as well.

And I have lots of like, smaller black feathers I have. It's a bit of a maybe a bit of Gothic kind of touch to it, a bit of a dragon kind of touch to it, because I do feel that, yeah, little bit. But the day is becoming shorter here. There's a slowness in my being and a bit more of a, you know, familiarity with the darkness inside of me. So, yeah, I would say I'm a I would say I'm I'm a strong black rainbow tailed predator bird, sorry, across the forests, and I'm pretty I'm a lone bird as well. At this point, I've been really in a very inward, individual journey over the past past few weeks. So yeah,

Speaker 1  3:53  
I love that. Yeah, thank you for sharing. I also love the the interesting combination of that sort of dark and Predator energy. And then this, like, what feels to me is like a playful, you know, the playful rainbow tale, you know, I love the alchemy of those energies coming together. And when you talk about that tale, it reminds me of the bird of Guatemala, the sacred bird of Guatemala. I don't know how to say it. Do you do? You know how to say it's like the Yeah, say it, yes, with that beautiful tail,

Shadi  4:33  
yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous. I've actually went and seen it a few times. Yeah, they're hard to see. They are, they're elusive. And you've gotta, you've gotta be lucky,

Wil Fisher  4:49  
yes, yeah, and it's, it's meant to bring you luck, or meant to bring you blessings when you do see them, or at least be a sign of of luck and and good, goodness. Coming to you,

Shadi  5:02  
yeah, thank you for connecting those notes. Because I also do feel like I've got a lot of resonance and connection with, well, you know, definitely with Guatemala, but, but also with the cat Sal, and it is a part of me, you know, energetically, yeah,

Wil Fisher  5:20  
wonderful, yeah. And I do hope we talk in this conversation more about Lake Atlan. I know it's a sacred place that is very connected to both our hearts, so I'm excited to get into that before we get into that and all the other juicy topics. I'll share my drag avatar, which is also an animal, but a different animal. I'm not a bird flying in the sky. I am a puppy. I have a dog. I am a playful pup. I'm super fluffy today in this drag avatar, a super fluffy, playful pop and, yeah. And I think, you know, I think some of that comes from the joy that I experience with you, like I you kind of ignite a joyful excitement in me. Part of that comes from the fact that there is a playful pup that is staying in my house right now, and so I've been playing with it a lot, and it's just like having me tune into those energies of myself and and part of it is that I'm wearing a really fluffy sweater that just feels like, you know, could be like puppy hair. So, yeah, I'm a playful pup. And we'll see, we'll see where that, where that leads this conversation, and how it influences it. You know, I know we're going to talk also about ink, and I have been starting to get curious about puppy play, but let's see where to begin. Where to begin? So yeah, why don't we start with you sharing a little bit about your journey to step into the field of work that you are so passionate about, and how that came to be. What would you like to share?

Shadi  7:06  
Yeah, oh, my god, beautiful. You know, Guatemala is actually such a big part of that journey. And so it we together with, with my story with Le catlan, very much. But really I I decided to go on a big nomadic travel when I was 23 and kind of fed up with living in Belgium, and I didn't really feel like there was a way forward for me into, you know, the truthfulness of my being. So I decided to really just release myself of all responsibilities in Belgium at that point, and and I traveled for a good few years, and I I really went for it, like full on Adventure nomads, up to the mystery. You know, I was, I sailed across the Atlantic, and, like on a I hitch hiked on a sailboat, wow. And then I was hiking and with friends, you know, and cycling and and I had a motorbike for a while, and drove that from Ecuador to Guatemala. And then, yeah, it was just such a wild period of my life. I really let myself fully just embrace the absolute mystery and surrendered to where I felt like I wanted to go without much, without much planning at all. And it felt really liberating. And when I got to Guatemala for the third time, this was in 2023, that was also the first time that I got to Lake Atlan. And, you know, when I got there, we were going to stay there for two days, and and my friend that I was staying with, he's like, you know, you've got to, you've got to meet this guy here in town. If there's one person you're going to meet here in town these two days, you've got to meet this guy. So there's this aura reader and tantric healer. So, you know, I was like, Whoa. That point that must have been, I must have been 25 maybe 26 Yeah. So I was like, whoa. And then there wasn't, there wasn't any, any time to meet this guy like, you know, his schedule was full. But then in the evening time I ran into him and his entourage, and it, and it appeared to be a, I want to say. Very transcendental Tantra teacher, who happened to have a entourage of a bunch of queer and gay and hetero, flexible humans all living in with him. And at that point, I was like, whoa. It was like, it was like, my, the part of me that was in a total spiritual Renaissance at that point in life was like this. This was absolute wet dream, you know, so I ended up kind of becoming a part of this person's entourage for the and it was, I mean, it was, it was a bit much, but it was gorgeous. It's so gorgeous and very, very, yeah, I'm not sure if I've actually had more deeper spiritual experiences that also combined Eros more than in those, I want to say, early days of my spiritual awakening, wow. And yeah, it was such a transmission. And so, you know, I was just like drawn into the place, and it was clear to me that this was going to be an important place for me for the rest of my life. And then I started going to cacao rituals with Keith Wilson, who, who is a very known, very well known cacao wisdom keeper who recently recently deceased, and learned so much together. This was together with my with my ex boyfriend, we, we went to so many of the car rituals and really dove deep into the potency of that medicine for emotional processing and emotional release work. And so I dove very deep into that after, you know, after I dove in, deep into Tantra, I started diving deep into the emotional processing work, mostly guided by cacao and by Keith Wilson, yeah, after that, I I went deeper into yoga together with my ex boyfriend at the time, we were like, you know, we always knew that we were going to Go to India. We were one of those couples. Then we made it there, and it was a very challenging journey, and very good, also in very many ways. So I went deep into into yoga there and breath work, and then afterwards, came back to Guatemala and and deepened my journey into sacred sexuality significantly when I started getting in touch with ista, with the International School of Temple arts, this must have been in 2016 and, yeah, and that that also just did so much for me, because it really allowed for a deeper, kind of more embodied, a more embodied approach to Tantra. Let's put it that way. Before that it was more, it was more in the transcendental for me, and like, you know, in the in the in the yogic and and it was all very beautiful, and, you know, terrific in so many ways. And I also actually wasn't all that grounded. And that really started to shift with my journey with ista. And then at that point, I also started hosting a cow ceremonies together with my with my ex partner. We did that for a while and and eventually I started also to dive very deep into the Mayan cosmology, the Mayan Cosmo vision and the Mayan ritual practice, which again, also was very deeply supported by cacao and I started studying Mayan cosmology and engaged in many fire rituals, and then started Going on sacred side trips with the local wisdom keep and eventually also hosting them, and, you know, leading groups to different sacred sites in Guatemala, which, which offered me a lot of a lot of experience in in the organizer field, in the logistical field, actually, and I. And which supported me after the pandemic, to start organizing trainings for ista as well in Guatemala and later in Belgium. And I feel very proud to say that in Belgium, I was the first person who brought ista there and and it was a relatively, it's changing so much, but it came from a relatively, want to say, binary, heteronormative background, and and I really had, I had such a challenging but very growth wil journey in that. And a big breakthrough for me has actually been as an organizer for ista to start organizing queer inviting ista trainings, and the one in Belgium that I've organized twice now has been specifically helped with this intention and and it's been such a success, and I feel like it's been a true honor, like for my soul, to be able to bring this body of work, or make this body of work that that I feel so that feels so precious to me, and that I've received so much from but to offer it make it more accessible for for people with a queer path and and that's been really quite, quite precious. And parallel with deepening my journey with sacred sexuality. I've also started to explore conscious kink, which is, which has just been, it's almost felt like it was just a natural next step. In so many ways, it was just like this natural thing that started happening, where, where it felt really organic and authentic to play with power exchange and

and to find that in a space where There's consensual, I want to say unbalance of power, that there's actually so much creativity and attention that that exists there once we create that that feel that dynamic intentionally and hold a sacred space for it. There's so much there's so much creativity, and there's so much space for also for attraction and desire to actually, to to unfold, to show itself and and it's just been so much fun for me to really define this whole this whole wounding around, you know, around power and domination that so many of us carry, you know, from this world that is just based on non consensual domination, but to clear all that and to Create sacred spaces where,

where that is actually welcomed. I overwhelmed and desiring like safe, sane and consensual domination has been truly magnificent for me, and I found so much, so much permission for myself

to express myself creatively. And it's also been a hard journey because I, yeah, I want to say, when we're going into those places that are unknown, there are shadows there that will come to the surface to be seen and to be worked with. And so, you know, it's definitely not been an easy journey. You know, in the sexual realms is where a lot of our shadows hide and and definitely in the in the meeting point of sex and power. So, yeah, it's, it's been, it's been a deep journey. And it resulted in in me starting to actually teach and CO create with a very, very precious, deep soul ally, Francesca Gentile, that you know, I've done work with cacao over the years, and and I was a guest teacher and things that she taught, and then she was a guest teacher in my cacao practitioner training. And so we had this beautiful back and forth thing. And eventually, Spirit led us to co create. Really beautiful, comprehensive program called the shamanic King immersion, where we work at the intersection of sacred sexuality of BDSM. I want to say conscious BDSM, ritual and ceremony, and, yeah, and, let's say transformational space, which, for me, ritual and ceremony is kind of the same thing as transformational space. So, yeah, so that's that's unfolded over the past year and a half, maybe two years, and it's been such a success, and I'm so grateful to be able to bring this, this program that's done this body of work that's actually so much bigger than me, and that's been benefiting and Supporting so many people, you know, because it's not easy to be able to, it's not easy to find spaces that truly support the full, like a full, integrated approach when it comes to media, as I'm in kink and I feel proud to have been able to create such a program. And yeah, that's been, that's been my, you know, my healing journey. I basically feel so blessed to have been guided by spirit, very powerfully, very clearly and and also grateful to myself to have been able to listen and to surrender to to Yeah, the the excitement that you know that's been there throughout the whole throughout the whole journey.

Wil Fisher  21:49  
Yeah, what a beautiful journey. Thank you for sharing all those pieces, and what a beautiful body of work and body of experiences. I mean, how can you share how old you are, Shadi, I'm 37 now. Yeah, 37 like relatively young in this kind of space, and there's not a lot of folks who begin that kind of awakening journey at 23 and so for you to have had that many experiences and trainings and those many callings, you know, for for the ways that you are meant to serve and support people. It's, it's really, it's exciting. Yeah, it's, it's, it's so expansive. And I love the collection of pieces too. I mean, I I always think that's so interesting, like the medicine that different folks in these fields carry. It comes from this interesting combination of modalities and approaches to accessing our connection to spirit. And I feel like yours is very unique, and also it just resonates with me so so deeply. So there's so many, so many places that I was like, oh, I want to follow up on that. I want to follow up on that. And like I said, I probably, we probably won't get to all of them, but I'd love to rewind the tape all the way back to the beginning of your journey. And this conversation, really, which was focused on Lake Atlan. And I'll just share that. The reason that it's so sacred to me is that I spent a a month there two summers ago, and it was very transformational for me. And the reason I went there was because I had seen that I am 3% I had 3% indigenous bloodline in that area, like right in Guatemala from my mom's side, and I had spent some time exploring the Native American indigenous bloodline that summer from my dad's side, so it felt natural to go there and then by a series of synchronicities, the the the Spirit led me to the lake and led me specifically to San Marcos, which I'm so grateful for. And one of the great blessings of my time there was discovering ecstatic dance. And another great blessing was discovering cacao. And it's interesting hearing you talk about the emotional processing work that you've done with cacao, and I don't think I've ever actually heard someone speak to that. So I'm interested to hear more, but I'll just share that. Yeah, when I did my first cacao ceremony, attended my first cacao ceremony. It was at yoga forest, and it was led by these two locals. They were beautiful, this beautiful, beautiful couple, and it was me with, I think, seven women. So I was the only male bodied person participant, and this, this wonderful couple leading us in songs, and we drank so much cacao, and it was a full moon. There was a full moon happening while we were there, and we were all crying and laughing and connecting in. The deepest ways, and it lasted for hours. It was so amazing. And I got to sing a song that I had been writing about, like Atlan, and it was just one of the most powerful and beautiful medicines that I got to experience that summer. And it began my relationship with cacao. And so I'm, I'm present to the fact that I don't believe anyone on this podcast has spoken about cacao, and it seems like you would be a great person to to take that on a bit. So I'd love for you to share about cacao. What is that medicine, and how you've worked with it, you know? I'm definitely curious about the emotional processing, as I just shared, there was emotional processing that happened in that first ceremony that I attended. Yeah. So what would you like to share with our listeners about cacao

Shadi  25:56  
Wow. I mean, where did you start? I just want to take a breath into that when you were saying that I was just transported to this, to this ceremony space that you were talking about. And it feels very it just feels so relatable. You know, I've had so many beautiful, beautiful experiences where and definitely with with music, when they're singing involved, like, wow, it just opens up so much. But cacao truly, cacao truly is just such a powerful teacher and and it's hard for people to understand. Like people who haven't actually, really been to a properly held cacao ceremony with good, strong cacao it's not, it's it's not possible to understand what you know, what it's like, and if you haven't done that, and it's it's so underestimated and and actually, there's a beauty in that, because cacao is, in my opinion, it's a very unconditional unconditional love, kind of medicine. It doesn't force anything. It's just there. So what that also means is that it adapts a lot to the energy of the person holding the ceremony, or the people holding the ceremony to the intention. And it's like if we're if we drink cow and in in sacred space, what it does is it just supports whichever intention we hold with a lot of love and a lot of awareness. And the intention that Keith Wilson used to hold in his ceremonies was a space for emotional and spiritual processing. And a lot of the work that we did was both personal, but actually often went into the transpersonal and to the collective field of consciousness as well. And so sometimes people would be purging, you know, we'd be crying or shouting or laughing or, you know, or all of it, and and he would, you know, he would direct, he would guide specific people to interact with other people in a way that that would be supportive for the moving of the energy and for the processing of the, I want to say the conditioning that was cemented into the body mind of The people involved and you know, and offer them a transformation in that yeah, in their conditioning, in the body, mind and yeah. And often it was personal, you know, ie things from from from this life, or, you know, experiences from childhood. But often it would also be things from kind of like ancestral grief would come up often, maybe even things for those who believe in that from, you know, different lifetimes, or archetypal things, and it would get wild. You know, some of the yeah and cacao is just such excellent medicine for that, because what I feel is the biggest power, apart from, you know, it's a it turns whichever. Attention into something more powerful. So together with that, the big I want to say, the big gift that cow brings is that it supports us to be more aware, more conscious and more present in observer role, while we're still fully embodied and while we're still really with whatever's happening in our bodies, in our physical bodies, our emotional bodies, our mental bodies. So it's like, it's almost like there's this hand, this hand of of our consciousness spirit. Call it what you want to call it, that's like behind us, very strongly and and it offers such a sense of safety and going really deep into all the weird, you know, whatever it is that's happening, and just allow and to just allow it to happen. And so, you know, cacao offers that potential, and it opens up a doorway to being able to go into spaces like that, and it's never going to be forceful. It may be that that you just want to have a creative time, and it's going to be supportive in that too. And to kind of come to conclusion on this brief, like, honestly, very brief synopsis of my, you know, my experience with cacao is that the mind's called cacao, cacao and cacao, so cow is the number two. So my mind spiritual teacher explained to me that cacao is actually the medicine that helps us to embrace duality and that helps us to raise the paradox. And you know, people say it's such a heart opening medicine and the heart space, the heart is really where spirit and matter, where the paradox of spirit and matter is unified, because it's the place that's actually both comfortable and alive in the body, in the matter connected with the earth, and where the information and the awareness and the energy of Spirit lands, it's the place where the paradox of spirit and matter is embraced. And so cacao helps us to do that. Keith Wilson used to say often, when you're when you're able to laugh and cry at the same time. He said, you're very close and like this. This truly is the This truly is the potency of the medicine that tower brings. And to even take it a little bit further into this theme of this podcast, actually, I find that there's a beautiful meeting point with the medicine of queerness, because, from my personal point of view and from my experience, it's like a big part of my journey as a queer human and a gender non conforming person, and, you know, non binary. You know how it is. It's like, I don't, I don't necessarily identify with one thing strongly, but, but my journey has been. My journey in queerness has been one of embracing a lot of paradoxes and polarities and actually finding this sweet spot that lives in the center while, you know, embracing all of it at the same time. So yeah, all that to say that the cow is a tremendously beautiful medicine, and it's underrated because it's often not held in an empowering and sacred way. And with, I want to say, with the the connection to the to the heritage of the medicine and and in alignment with, you know, lived experience and wisdom of journeying with, with it extensively. So I, yeah, I'm, I'm a big I mean, it's, I wouldn't, I would never be here without the help of cacao. In so many ways, it's an absolutely magnificent plant teacher, and I'm very safe as well. Like. Very safe, very loving, very unconditional. And, yeah,

Wil Fisher  35:06  
beautiful, yeah. Oh, that was so rich. I love, I love all of that. And it makes me want to drink a big cup of ceremonial cacao right now. And I especially love you talking about it as this gentle opening, this, this gentle invitation, right? It's, it's powerful, but we also get to choose how to be in relationship with that invitation, with that opening, whereas you know, some of our other medicines that you know are less accessible are sometimes illegal or psychedelic. I'm thinking particularly of grandmother ayahuasca, where it's it's not such a gentle opening or invitation, and it's sort of like a throw down, you know, like a spiritual throwdown. And so I do appreciate cacao as as this more like it is what you make of it, but, but the important piece to remember is not to underestimate it, like you said, like just because it doesn't throw you down, it still has that potential of potency, if you are in A space with a strong intention, with strong ritual structure and a strong ceremonial, you know, guidance and leadership. So I love all of that, and I especially love what you shared about the heart is the space where the paradox of spirit and matter are embraced. That is that's so beautiful. Thank you for for dropping that, that piece. Yeah, where to go next? I mean, I feel like perhaps ritual would be a nice next piece, because, as I just said, that is such a a factor in how people are getting to experience these, these medicines, and whether they be medicines of erotic sexuality or of you know, cacao, the ritual really does play such a large part. And you shared about your experience with fire ritual. And actually last night was the full moon in Aries, so there's a lot of fire, fiery Full Moon energy in the field. As we record this, what would you like to share about the power of ritual, and maybe specifically, the power of the element of fire with within ritual?

Shadi  37:41  
Wow. Rich question. So I think in the first place to continue weaving in my personal journey a little bit, I actually see very clearly now how impactful my journey with cacao has been in truly understanding the power of ritual, because I started to notice at some points that when drinking cacao, and sometimes also when not drinking cacao, is that sometimes ritual just emerges. It's just, it just happens, it starts. I can feel it. And it's, it's, it's a mindset. It's, it's a shift in awareness. It's like, okay, this is important. We're fully here now we'll be here for how long you know, whatever it takes, however long it takes, this is important. And it's like through our intention, through our presence and through our power, we're creating, we're basically deciding that something is sacred and and we're going to give it space. And, you know, the attention can be, can be anything like, there's so many daily life things that can be a ritual, like, it's, it's really everywhere and, you know, and then, of course, there's really big, important rituals, ceremonies like weddings and, you know, funerals and or grief rituals. But things like sitting down with somebody to have a clearing conversation after there's been tension or a conflict like that's a ritual. It's It's a sacred space to care for the to leverage our communication, to care for the relationship between. Each other. You know, we can, we can create the container for it and, and it just magnifies so much the the potential for the work and the play that can happen in those spaces, and, and for cacao, specifically, I've noticed that, yeah, it just, it just takes it to a whole other level. On that note, you've got to use the right cacao because a lot of people will go to the organic shop and, you know, get some cacao powder, cocoa powder, which is absolutely not effective. And there's a huge difference in the amount of theobromine, active ingredient, between between different kinds of cacaos. So you've got to use proper cacao that's sourced specifically for the amount of theobromine, which often would be called ceremonial cacao. But ceremonial cacao, being called ceremonial cacao doesn't necessarily mean that it has the high theobromine content that we're looking for. So you've got a vet the cow, but it there is also a physiological aspect to it, like it will create many hormones in the body. And, you know, the higher the the quality and the tailbone content of the cacao, the more that will happen and and the the more there, there will be an effect that will allow us to also go deep into the the presence and the embodied, I want to say, the embodied presence that's really required to go into these deep ritual spaces. But to circle back to what you know, just the general concept of ritual, I I would say the cow supported me tremendously to understand just just the power of ritual and ceremonial intentional framework for almost anything So oftentimes, in when We were talking about medicinal plants or psychedelics, people who who journey with them. You know, we'll talk about the set in the setting and and

Yeah, and so I started to understand that this concept of certain setting is just important for ritual and ceremony, whatever the intention may be, or whatever the medicine may be that we're journeying with and um. And so in my personal journey of exploring sacred sexuality, Neo Tantra, and later on, conscious BDSM, I started to really approach create a ritual setting for the medicine of Eros, and actually for the medicine of King COVID exam, which is a whole other, a whole other story. It's a whole other realm that we're talking about, which often includes Eros, but is much more, much more extensive. I mean, you know, in the world view, Eros is life force and is present in everything. You know, obviously that also applies there, but it's, it's a very big playing field and a huge template that that we can look at within, within BDSM, within conscious king. And so I started to understand, the stronger the medicine, the stronger the framework, the Ritu framework needs to be, the stronger the container needs to be. And so, you know, we're talking about fire. I guess it's like the stronger the fire at the center of the circle of symbolically, you know the ritual circle, the stronger the fire, the more attentive we need to be. And the more energy that we're working with,

Unknown Speaker  44:35  
the

Shadi  44:37  
more present we need to be. And so basically, I started to, you know, I took a few trainings here and there, and conscious skin realms, and with very, very skilled teachers. I feel very blessed to have been able to to get that. And you know, they were using these forms to to prepare for scenes. And I started to get creative. And, you know, make my own, make my own forms where a lot of the points that I feel are really important to be able to hold a strong container are written down and talked about. And so one of the blessings of the world of BDSM, actually the wil of traditional BDSM, is that because they're working with so much intensity, and, you know, fire, let's say they've really fine tuned a lot of communication tools that have been that have actually trickled out and have become a gift for many other realms and environments, authentic relating to took a lot from there as well. And then, you know, obviously Neo Tantra and sacred sexuality also took a lot from what actually the media ZEM world did a lot of groundwork for. So, yeah, I think what I started to understand is that in order to be able to fire that definitely, when we're talking BDSM, but also, you know, in in sacred sexuality and sharing of Eros, to be able to tend to The the amount of energy and fire that's there. You know, adequately, importantly, we need to do foundation work, and I started to develop a muscle and a bit of a kick. Even for communication, it's like it's such a turn on for me. Now, people who communicate, well this, there's a super sexual part of me that really awoke over the past last five or so years and before, maybe I would have been a little bit like, you know, I just want to like, flow into it and kind of turn off to talk about things beforehand, but I understand now that the just depths that that we can go to and the sacredness that we can create simply by two humans or more. But you know, two humans connecting in an intentional way, and allowing whatever is actually alive in the moment, whatever the mystery is bringing up for them in the sacredness of a space like there's so much depth and it's only really responsibly accessible with a lot of groundwork. So I yeah, I've, I think, I think that's, that's what I want to say about fire. It's, um, yeah. I'm also happy to talk more about traditional mind fire rituals. Yeah.

Wil Fisher  48:19  
I think we'll do that in another episode, because I want to get into more around the kink stuff as we were naturally already going there. But one of the things that came up for me when you were sharing about ritual space and the importance of intention was a I was reminded of when you talked about kink, as this tension that exists because of the imbalance, unbalance of power, right? The the binary of the power and the the one not in power. And so what, what came through I really love, like word play and seeing the the spells, right? So, like the spells that exist within language, even if it's not intended to be that way, even if it wasn't originally because of that. But the when we get to see these little these little winks, and so what came through was intention also sounds like in tension. You know, it sort of reminds you of, like the tension of King, yeah, yeah, that was kind of fun. And so, yeah, thanks, yeah. Intention,

Shadi  49:30  
Nice catch,

Wil Fisher  49:32  
thanks. Yeah. So anything more you'd like to share about, particularly what it is that brings your work from King or BDSM, from just kink and BDSM into shamanic or conscious kink and BDSM and and perhaps you want to share a story from your experience of of this, or from you know. A participant's experience of what's possible when, when we do make that shift and and bring shamanic practices and consciousness into these, these beautiful tools that sometimes are done in in a different way. You know, I'm not going to say a less important way, it's just not the same.

Shadi  50:25  
Yeah, thank you for that, for that question. So I think again, you know, everything will depend on the intention. And yeah, so to start off, I think I want to say that there's, there's two threads that I want to follow. One is, if we're talking, if we're talking about, let's say, a classical BDSM. Power Exchange, we would, you know, we play with the dominant and submissive archetypes, and what happens there is that when the submissive for their benefit and with their wil invites or requests for the dominant to hold power and to take guidance and leadership. What happens is they, you know, they're still. The submissive is still 100% responsible for their their experience. They're, you know, they're still an active surrender, let's say once, you know, once the dynamic is set, but, but they're really giving clear directions and requests through the communication before the scene and the setting of the framework, they're very essentially handing over the power, very clearly handing over the power to the dominant and and the dominant will then basically take All the decisions, you know, assuming that, of course, they'll stay within integrity, and they'll they understand exactly where the boundaries are before we're going into the scene, which means often before we're going into a state of erotic activation of some sort, which means Before we're going into an altered state, because once we go into that ritual space and into that altered state there, there shouldn't be any shifts in boundaries, unless it's unless the boundaries tightened. Does that make sense? Yeah, so we never, we never support people when they're in a in a submissive role to then state, you know, give looser boundaries or make requests that are looser than their boundaries that they previously stated before the altered state to their dominant. So, you know, assuming that the dominant is fully aware of the boundaries and the desires that submissive has, they can, they can actually, the dominant can actually also surrender to something bigger than them, which is their guidance from spirit and, yeah, and so what happens there is they contain the submissive, so they create a field of of Safety. They physically and emotionally energetically protect the submissive. Um, and then once, that's once that that that power is there, once that field, that protective field, is there, the submissive will feel it. They'll start to sink, they'll start to relax. And then the dominant will attune to the submissive. So they'll they'll first protect them, but then they'll tune to them. They'll kind of come into their energy field and get very familiar with it, and they'll start to build a muscle to really understand in the nervous system of the submissive what's happening, and with the guidance from spirit and the information that they receive through their attunement to the submissive, they'll be able to guide them masterfully into a space that goes deeper and deeper and deeper, until eventually, submissive will actually be in a space that's where they almost don't exist. Mm. And where they're in a space where it's kind of like the dark light, something like that, and there's a tremendous access to creativity there, to purpose. It's like, it's actually what the dominant offers the submissive when they when they handle them masterfully, is they offer them access to spirit and and, and then the submissive, once they come back, will offer return service to the dominant and actually praise them for the energy that they poured into the submissive and for the the intentionality and the power that they showed up with for the submissive. So it's a dance, and one person is, you know, a receiver in the dance, and one person isn't given dance. Let's put it that way. But contrary to what some people may think when looking at a scene, is actually that the gift of the scene is for the submissive. It's not. And, you know, of course, the dominant mega off, which is great. And you know, there's a payoff there too, but it's actually for the submissive and and they're investing a lot of energy and care and intentionality. And what is such a mind mindset shift is that, you know, sometimes when we're looking at the dominant, they seem like they're they seem like they may be abusing the submissive, but actually, there's something about the power that's held by the dominant is actually desired by the submissive, because that power is not it's not against the submissive, it's actually for them. So so if a submissive feels that their dominant isn't holding power, they're not going to feel as safe anymore, because some person in the room you know may walk into the energetic space of the scene, or maybe even stumble over something that's you know next to them, and and, and the dominant isn't going to, you know, defend the space. Let's put it that way. So it's like there's actually a really powerful invitation for a dominant to bring that power. And so it's the real, it's a real mindset shift around, how do we work and play with power and when it's done well, which takes practice, but when it's done well, it's the sacred space that offers both players actually access to a Yeah, a much deeper honestly. Say reality, it's that both players actually get access to something bigger than themselves. So that's one thread that I wanted to bring into this you know, this question, this conversation. Another thread is that, apart from traditional power exchange, you know what I just talked about, we can also create rituals where, where we, where we view power exchange as somebody is in leadership, somebody's a guide, and somebody is a guided or a receiver. And we can create, using the three fields of videos and the three pillars of BDSM, which is role play and sensation and power exchange, we can create a space where many other kinds of explorations, and the potential that the possibilities are really endless can be invited. So for example, let's say we're we already we, you know, already unpacked a little bit power of exchange. Change. So if we're taking Eros out of that equation, as you know, a necessity, it's like it's optional. Let's put it that way. And then we bring in role play, which basically means that we can invite different parts of ourselves or archetypes to come to the table and be held almost like ritual theater, sacred role play by the two players or more players for a specific intention. So. So for example, let's say, in that's simple example, in the case of you, me, you know, you're a fluffy puppy and I'm a dragon, whatever I

Wil Fisher  1:00:19  
was hoping you were going to go there. This is great,

Shadi  1:00:24  
yes. So those may actually be valid parts of our inner worlds. You know, we may have a part of ourselves, an aspect of ourselves that actually really

finds expression in those archetypes. So let's say, you know those parts, or let's, let's frame it differently. Let's say you're the fluffy puppy, you're the receiver,

and you, you actually in that space, really would feel, I and it would feel beautiful to that part of you to be able to express itself in a way that it's, that it's owned and cared for like A good copy by its own. So then, you know, you would ask me, Do you are you able to play my owner with these and these and these qualities? And, you know, we we take it to the table and fill in some forms and get clear on what the boundaries are and and what the actual intention is, whether it's, maybe there's there's a loving intention, or maybe there's more of a challenging transformation, intention, feeling and transformation can go through love as well as through, through challenge. But you know, when we bring a role play, it's like it becomes much more ample. And then we can also bring in sensation, which can be any, you know, any number of of things that that will serve the intention. And the beautiful thing about sensation is that we can, we can actually get access to a person's neurological connection with the body through nervous system. So if we're taking time, and if we're, you know, attuned and skilled and slow enough and listening to the person's body, then actually really beautiful, healing results can can happen through that. Transformational results can happen through that, and you know, as well as ecstatic or expansive, or you know, or sexy expressions like that can also be part of it, but it it also has the potential to really go into trauma healing, because we can reframe things, we can replay things from the past, wounds Big or Small, and yeah, there's just so much potential there. So for me, what I've what I've found, is that it's such a life hack to be able to hold a sacred space for simply the medicine of who we are as a human and and, yeah, I'm bringing it to the table in honesty and transparency and vulnerability. And then, you know, going on a journey, um, and seeing what, what the mystery wants to wants to bring in that sacred space.

Wil Fisher  1:04:00  
Wow, so beautiful, so powerful. And what an invitation. Just hearing you share what's possible in that space is, yeah, it's, I'm feeling like my my mind is a bit blown, my heart is a bit blown. I've, I mean, I've heard you talk about these things before, but not in that way. And that was really, really exciting to me to hear it like that. So thank you for sharing all that, and I have a secret, not so secret now that I'm sharing it right now. Wish that that will come to fruition someday, whether it's with you or just with your facilitation, perhaps even in Costa Rica at the at the conscious kink retreat coming up in December, which I'll be sure to share about in the show notes. Yeah, and I one other thing I wanted to share, which was this, I loved when you talked about the dark light and you also talked about the dance. And so the words I wrote down was the dance of the dark. Polite. There's another little word word play that's coming through. Yeah? So I feel like this is a great time to wrap up. Is there anything, any final thoughts you'd like to share, maybe, about that upcoming retreat, like I said, I'll have the info in the show notes, but anything about that, or anything else you'd like to share with the listeners as we wrap up today.

Shadi  1:05:24  
Yeah, well, thank you for those beautiful reflections and impatience and yeah. Well, I mean, this conscious thinking ritual program in December in at the jungle neighborhood is just like it just feels like another, next logical step. You know, the shamanic think conversion has been very successful, very gorgeous. It's definitely queer inviting. And and also we noticed that queer and gay men, you know, do well in a in a container that's specifically tailored for them. And and I felt the desire, I felt the call to create that. And I feel very honored that the jungle Gabriel was such, such a straightforward like, full on, yes, when, when I contacted them with this offer, yeah, and I'm super thrilled about that. You know, going to be co creating this with Simon Magnus, long standing friend of mine, we we used to hold Kakao, sacred sexuality temple spaces for for gay and queer man in Amsterdam number of years ago. And he's very skilled, very experienced in ritual theater, has been facilitating for about 20 years and an absolute powerhouse. So I feel super honored to be able to bring this program, which really feels cutting edge. And, yeah, there's going to bring together a bunch of a bunch of potent experiences in a week long transformational ritual framework, really. So, yeah, it's going to be a big and beautiful program in a very, very large setting, in the jungle in Costa Rica, yeah, at a really next level venue. You know, they're, they're doing a bunch of potent work for the for the game queer community here in America. So yeah, I'm, I'm thrilled, and, yeah, very, very happy to answer any questions. Also any, if anybody feels, feels inspired, but may need some more information, I'm definitely available to share more about it. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  1:08:03  
fabulous. I'll have your info in the show notes as well. And, yeah, I mean, I'm feeling even more called to be present for that retreat now that we've had this conversation. And if I do go listeners, and I do get to experience that, that role play and others, I'll be sure to share about them in reflection on the pod when I return. And yeah, if not in Costa Rica Shari, I hope to see you in person sometime soon. I love your energy. I love your wisdom. I love being able to connect with you. So thank you so much for joining me in this conversation today.

Shadi  1:08:44  
Thank you so much, Wil Yeah, and back at you. I so appreciate your presence and all the beautiful things that you that you do for the community and for the world. And yeah, hope to see you in Costa Rica, and otherwise, I'm sure our past will cross soon. Yes, much.

Filena