Elemental Balancing with Kevin Kahakula’akea John Fong

In this illuminating episode, I sit down with Kevin Kahakula’akea John Fong —an internationally recognized cultural translator, facilitator, and speaker whose work bridges ancient wisdom with modern healing.

We begin by exploring how history can offer perspective on today’s chaos, reflecting on past global crises and the role of queer leaders in shaping a new path forward. We discuss the medicine of being seen, heard, and connected—and the vital role of bridge-makers in an increasingly divisive world.

Kevin introduces us to the Five Elements (Water, Wood, Fire, Earth, and Metal), an ancient East Asian framework for balance and well-being—one he first learned from his grandmother and later applied while directing an AIDS clinic in the Bay Area during the height of the epidemic. Through a personal Five Elements reading, I get a firsthand experience of how this wisdom can guide our daily choices, from setting boundaries to creating environments where we thrive.

We also talk about our relationships with nature, the ways it nurtures and nourishes us, and how our elemental makeup influences our paths. We leave you with an invitation to tap into your queer joy.

Check out Kevin's work at: https://www.kahakulei.com/

And find more info about The Five Elements and their new book at https://my5elements.life/

Connect with Wil at https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/

Transcript

Wil Fisher  0:02  
Kevin, hello, Kevin, welcome to queerly Beloved. So glad to have you on the show. I wil.

Kevin  0:07  
What a pleasure and joy to be with you today. Happy to see you as always.

Wil Fisher  0:12  
It is always a joy for me to be with you. You do really spark joy in me, and I noticed the fire behind you, speaking of Spark, I love that there's already elements being brought into this space that we're creating together, because we're going to get into some conversation around elements. But before we do that, I would love to dive into this conversation by starting with my customary introduction question, which as I I can answer first, to give you some time to think about it, but the question is, Who are you in this moment? But tell me by describing a drag avatar that embodies that, and it, when I say drag avatar, it doesn't have to be like Ru Paul's drag race type drag it can be, you know, it could actually be elemental. It could be something beyond what sometimes the queer community considers drag. It seems like you might already have your answer, or do you want me to go first?

Kevin  1:10  
I have my answer, but I want to hear what you would say. So,

Wil Fisher  1:13  
okay, okay, sure. Okay. Well, let me, let me tune in. Then, because I don't have my answer yet, let me tune in. Ah, yeah, okay. I've got a lot of energy moving through me. This morning, I book up early and went to the gym and did a did a class like a hybrid cardio strength class. And this energy that's moving through me, it feels very It feels green. It feels like this. I feel, I'm feeling into this kind of green goddess avatar, this green goddess that is in her joy, and she is creating, and she's moving that energy, and she is creating with love. She's got this, like, beautiful, it's like a very wide, long, flowing green dress. And then her arms are like intertwined with vines. And she's got, you know, some, like, sparkly top, big, flowing red hair, because I like that red, green, contrast. And then the way I'm seeing her right now is she's kind of, like, she's like, flinging her arms gracefully, dramatically in this fabulous way. And, and, oh, I think this is maybe a reference from a Disney movie, but, but like, vines are like coming out, you know, and like flowers are coming out, and she's just, like, growing, you know she's growing? Yeah, so that's my drag avatar today.

Kevin  2:45  
Wow. Okay, so my drag avatar is actually my drag name is Milani Angelique, and I, so I've been, I've been like Milani has existed in me since I was five, and my drag mother, Regina Angelique, may she rest in peace. Gave me my name when I was in my early 20s. Milani means, in some ways, the flower of May, so, yeah, or a beautiful flower in May and, and so what I'm manifesting is purple is my favorite color, and the plum blossom is my favorite flower. And so sometimes plum blossoms can be purple, but they're mostly pinks or whites. But the, of course, you know, the resulting root is purple. So it's sort of like I'm manifesting this sort of very, like, there's, I'm definitely in white, with shades of of purples and plums, kind of bone braid out. But really what's inside is, is, like purple, like a deep purple, like that type of purple that, if you're looking at it, you know, it's just gonna wrap you up and keep you warm and nestled. So it's not just a flash or purple, but it's like a beef purple and plum blossoms. For me, they're interesting because they're the first flower that shows up in the spring type. So they're really delicate, delicate, like cherry blossoms, but they show up like in February or March, and knowing like this is me full on, full out, I'm first out, and I have the courage to do that, but I also know that one like gust of wind or snowfall will take everything away, so I have to show up and be all of that right now. And so my drag avatar is there's a sense of boldness, a sense of almost foolish courage that's coming through. But I'm looking like kind of ready to go, so I'm thinking more Calvin Klein ish minimalist, like long Trent coat with tailored pants and like the. Really silky, sort of shimmery, little sparkly top that's happening so So like, if I open my my trench coat, you would see like, all the beautifulness, but only certain people get to see it. Otherwise you're just gonna see me, like looking all like with my sunglasses on and just being sleek and cool. That's my drag avatar right now. So I am looking forward to, metaphorically, you know, just kind of showing the fabulousness that's that's emerging from within. So and we'll see what cooks up. I don't even know what it's going to be. So

Wil Fisher  5:36  
I love it so much. I love it so much, and I love that we're both bringing in these sort of floral, green, green, ladies of the hour. Yeah, the Disney movie I was thinking of was in canto. I don't know if you've seen that movie. Yeah, that one sister who's like, you know, she's, she's got this, like, power, and she's, like, sending out this, these vines. That was the image that was coming through. But yeah, and I love, I love what you just described that the that deep, rich purple, it almost gave me this, this feeling of groundedness, right? Some of the the flower colors, like the bright pinks and yellows, are more just kind of dainty and up here, but this, like deep purple, there's like this groundedness in it that feels really rich right now, too. Oh yeah, beautiful. Thank you for sharing all that. And I'm feeling also called for us to to get into some conversation around nature and our relationship with nature. And before we do, though, I'm just present to a lot of chaos in the world. You know? Yeah, we do hear this comment a lot these unprecedented times. And, yeah, just want to kind of tune in and hear how it has been for you. You know, we have a new president in place, and it hasn't been very, very long, and there's a lot of reactivity going on. I'm just curious how you've been doing, how your nervous system is and and how you've been doing, and maybe what's supported you through some of the these, you know, these, maybe more chaotic times. Yeah,

Kevin  7:06  
thank you. You know, I have my my children, Raphael and Santiago are, they're now adults and and they, they're, they're queer folk. So I'm one of those people that we adopted, these two young people, Rafa from Paraguay and Zaki from Guatemala. And, you know, some folks would have said, Oh, you shouldn't let gay people adopt, because they're going to turn their kids into queer folk. Um, well, that exactly happened in my family. So we're kind of the poster children, or the poster family for the other side. We're either side to say, look, you know, isn't this fabulous, but they've been Rafa is 30 and Santi is 25 and they were kind of saying, you know, oh my gosh, what's happening now? And these times are unprecedented. And I just thought, well, let me, let me think about this. And so I just went back 100 years in the United States to the year, 1925 and you know what was happening? Wil was like we were coming out of a major worldwide pandemic. There was all kinds of political turmoil, and authoritative, authoritarian wil was on the rise. And there were all these technological advances that were changing the world, like the car and the airplane and radio, yeah. And we had an inept, scandal ridden president in office, and who was rounding up, you know, people who weren't like them, and deporting them or throwing them in jail. And, you know, queer folk were kind of in the midst of a great Renaissance, but that was being shut down, and the threat of all that. And so it's like, Okay, so we've kind of been there before, you know? And the question is, are we going to repeat what happened after, which was a great depression and a world war and war division, or, like, are we going to choose another path in 2025 and, you know, I was just thinking, it's kind of to us, right? It's up to us, the misfits, the rascals, the in betweeners, the queer folk, to actually show another path, another way. And so when I think about this notion of, okay, I am, I am Miss plum blossom here, and I'm ready to show another way, who's with us, right, who's with us, and who really wants to be with us, and how can we provide that pathway for them? So I think that's the question I'm coming into. It's like, yeah, it feels really unprecedented, but we've kind of been here before, and in many ways, that makes me feel sort of hopeful, like I think we'll be we'll make it through. We'll be alright. We'll be absolutely

Wil Fisher  9:38  
it is so powerful and valuable to look at history for that purpose, to see that, yeah, that what feels like completely outside of the norm has happened, maybe not while we've been alive, but it has happened, and I love this piece around this possibility of changing what happens after this moment of. Chaos and challenge, and that we have an opportunity to learn from our mistakes in the past. And I also love this charge of bringing the queer folks in as leaders in this and I absolutely agree that it is those folks who are outside of the heteronormative, uh, conforming, larger class of folks who seem to be riding this wave in a way that they can't really get off the wave, whereas us queer folks, we often are able to see a different path simply because we are seeing the world through a different lens, right? We are on the outside, and by being on the outside, perhaps we can shift the way that we are, the direction that we're moving in. And perhaps it didn't work in the past because the queer folks weren't as empowered. And maybe these days, there's more of us. There's more of us in power, in an empowered place, more of us in a conscious place, and we can perhaps be the leaders that we're meant to be

Kevin  11:05  
100% and I think even just like you could have stuck with there's more of us period, right? And so it's just, and I'm not discounting that some people out there might feel so alone and so isolated, and there's nobody standing with and for me, it's like, just look at me and look at Wil. We're standing with and for you, right? And we are unapologetic and unashamed to do that. And I think we're living in a world where, at least in in this country, in the United States, we can be unapologetic and unashamed. I just got back from Jackson, Mississippi, Wil and you know, it's it's hard there it is. Life is hard there. But I also had an opportunity to hang out with a young person who's 20 years old and is exploring her own queer identity and her parents, who were both born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi, are, you know, just questioning, how do we support her? How do we show up for her in a in a in a community that may not be as welcoming? And so, you know, here I am, even though I'm across the country, it's like, you got me, right? You got me. My nibbling, she has me, but also her parents have me, and that that just like my friend, this, this person's Mom, just just kind of wil up in tears just to know that okay, I feel seen and understood. That's going to take us a long way. Just to say, I see you, I understand you, and you have every right to bring your magic, your your beauty, your medicine, your gifts to bear, and they will be seen, and they're needed more than ever right now.

Wil Fisher  12:58  
So beautiful. Yeah, I just came back from Joshua Tree, where I hosted another one of my awakened hearts retreats, and got to experience a similar medicine that, that medicine of being seen and heard, and how it can shift someone's energy when they are able to see that they're not alone, when they're able to see that they're not as broken as they think that they are when they're able to see that they are, they are capable of so much more than what they thought they were capable of, and that they have so much more to be, to be credited for and to be proud of than what they were seeing, and to have that That beautiful mirror that can help you really see your worthiness and see how deserving you are of love, and in you receiving that, you're able to give it back, right? And the beautiful love that also is moving through that kind of space, it's like this, this mirror infused with love, right, when we're able to see ourselves more clearly and able to see others in this more empowered way, and by doing that, be able to shift how we're showing up in the world. It's such a it's such beautiful medicine. It's so simple too, right? Simple

Kevin  14:12  
Wil, yeah. And you know, we're living in a world that's so focused on breaking right? Everything is about separation instead of yes, yeah, and calling people names and demonizing and we do it ourselves. I mean, I'm I'm just as as prone to that as others, but it's sort of like that's not what we learn in in our schools, in our communities, in our families. Social media and conventional media is all about like, how do we divide? Divide. Our government is certainly doing that as well. So it takes some courage, and it takes some seeking to find out, to find those of us that are more interested in doing the bridge work, right? So yeah,

Wil Fisher  14:53  
and it's a reminder that there are folks who want to connect, like for those who are feeling so isolated. Now to remember that there are opportunities for you to come and be pulled in to a place of belonging, and in that state of belonging, to feel that wholeness, to feel that connection. So being isolated sometimes ends up being a choice, right? And to remember that there is a different choice that you can choose to belong. You can choose to find a path towards belonging, and it's, you know, obviously a lot more challenging for some. And I definitely feel that and acknowledge that, and I implore anyone who is feeling isolated to to get resourceful and find a way to to move towards connection, because that's what we need. I mean, especially in the face of folks trying to divide us is we need to feel connected, otherwise we feel powerless, or I feel powerless if I'm not feeling connected.

Kevin  15:46  
Well, thank you for this platform, because this is, this is a way that, you know, it's like one o'clock in the morning and I can't sleep, and then I come to this, okay, it's not that you put me to sleep.

Wil Fisher  15:59  
Well, okay, perfect. I love that. I'd love to tuck you in. I love that. So sweet. So, yeah, I'd love to hear you know we were, we were talking about nature a little bit, both in our drag avatars and and in the conversation about elements. And I'm curious, actually, because you know, you've written this beautiful book the five elements, and this approach to to life, I would say, to to personal growth and to well being through, through looking at this lens of the elements. But let's, let's kind of just talk a little bit about nature. And I'm just curious about your relationship with nature and and with the elements.

Kevin  16:43  
Oh my gosh. So I, you know, I have always been drawn when we think of elements, and in my tradition, we have five elements, water, wood, fire and earth and nature and metal. My So, lots of people say, Are you a mountain person or beach person? Like an ocean person. I'm an ocean person. So I've always been drawn to water. I just love being in water. I'm a swimmer. I love hanging out at the beach and wandering around and seeing what what it has to teach me. I've been learning how to be in mountains and amongst forests. But sometimes I find it for me personally, I find it kind of constricting. And when you're at the beach, there's like expansiveness, yeah, and so that's what I seem to need. And I do know that nature oftentimes knows exactly what we need, like nature provides the medicine that we are craving, whether it's that sense of expansion or that sense of feeling wrapped up and nurtured, whether we need that gust of fresh air or the warmth of a fire that is currently happening right behind me. I turned on the fireplace because it feels damp and cold in here, you know, and so the thing that wil balance out the excess of water is fire. And so I think as sentient beings that are comprised of the elements, we naturally go to that. And so if we can just trust that and understand that the law of nature is about balance, that's what we do. But I do find myself for me going to like if I need to just clear or feel anchored or grounded, I go, I go to the beach and get my feet, like bare feet, to the sand and in the water, and it changes my whole chemistry the way I am. And it doesn't take, it take, like, a 10th of a second, right? And it's like, oh, okay, I feel better, yeah. Then I could go about my day. What does that look like for you?

Wil Fisher  18:42  
Yeah, I'm with you. I am more of an ocean person, you know, I live a couple blocks from the beach. You and Greg are gonna have to come visit sometime. And yeah, I, you know, when I travel or when I relocate, I'm always like, where is the body of water? I need to know where the body of water is, because that orientates me, you know, because I grew up near the ocean. But what really was coming through for me too was the parallel here around the medicine of being seen and being heard and the medicine of connection, and we get to have that experience also, not just with our fellow human beings, but also with nature itself, with animals and with with just nature, with rocks and trees and and oceans and and to remember that, that when we're feeling disconnected, that we can also go outside and intentionally connect with nature, that it's always there for us to connect with. And when we're seeing this like magnificent piece of nature before us, and we feel this sense of wonder that's also a bit of a mirror, because we are this right when we're seeing this beautiful thing that is us, you know, and to remember that we always have access to that as well. And that nature, just like the fire, is touching you, right? It's warming you in this damp space, it's touching you, right, that nature is actually stuff that we. Can feel. So if we're feeling like deprived of touch, we can go outside and just like stroke a rock, you know, we can go outside and, like you said, put our our feet into the dirt, and feel that touch like there's something so sensuous and and nurturing about nature's touch. To remember that medicine is also available if we so choose to pursue it

Kevin  20:21  
100% I mean, I so I live in San Francisco, and it's really, really urban here in the Mission District. And so, like, yeah, Kevin, where am I gonna find nature here, right? And so sometimes when I just walk out and it's like, they're so I want to talk to the, like, the city folk, or, you know, folks who like, I don't have access to, like, a beautiful woodsy area, or I can't get to a body of water. It's like, look for, look for the medicine of nature in others. And so I could walk out right now and walk down 24th street, and I might see a grandmother and her grandchild approaching me, right? And that's the nature of wood. I mean, I'm sorry, that's the nature of Earth. It's like fully encompassing and and just maternal and nurturing, right? Or I might hear a jackhammer on the on the side of me, and that's, that's, that's the element of metal, saying we need structure, we need to, we need to, kind of pierce through something, right? I might feel a gust of wind that that refreshes me, or I turn the corners like, whoa, feel that wind. That's the nature of wood, that's that's really about movement and growth and and and possibility and wonder. And so, you know, I'm kind of, and part of my book is like, yes, we can turn to nature, literally, like water or wood or fire, but we can also turn to the nature that exists within us as people, right, or as as sentient beings. My dog, Bodie, certainly brings a certain elemental nature about him that I can turn to and just give them a big hug and get that dose

Wil Fisher  22:02  
of what I need. So I love that, yeah, yeah. I love that so much. This, this reminder that everything is nature, right, to remember that all is nature. It's all nature. And, you know, in my perspective, it's all God, it's all nature, which is all God and which is all love? You know, if you keep going, but it starts with, it's all nature. And, yeah, that reminder that we have it all inside us as well. Yeah, I don't know if I've shared this with you, but my first four tattoos are the elements, and I was just working with the four, so I have let me see if I can share these while I'm still talking, I've got fire and, oh, my air on that side with these Tibetan flames and these Art Nouveau clouds. And then on my other side, I have earth and water. That's oak tree, and these tides moving through the oak tree. And I, you know, I considered them or I, I was invited into that tattoo, that tattoo choice really early in my spiritual journey, my practice and I had started to connect with more earth based spirituality, and I was starting To recognize the power of connecting with the elements, to work with the elements and their principles and qualities in in spiritual practices and also in personal growth approaches. You know, my practice originally was with Joe Weston's work, who you know, obviously you're familiar with it, and love Joe. He's he's been a podcast interview subject, and his work in the with the elements has been super helpful for me as well. You know how what which of these elements do I need to connect with to to find my balance? And so actually, I feel like that's a good segue into your approach, which is, I imagine, has some similarities to some of Joe's thoughts, but I'd love you to go through the elements, if that feels interesting for you. Okay, cool. Let's do it.

Kevin  24:12  
Okay, I'm gonna so how did my journey start? Like I, you know, I am of East Asian descent, and this all like the origins of this book and my my learnings actually came from my grandmother, who didn't have a day of a single day of formal education in her life, but she was so wise, Wil, like she Wil, so every day, grandma would make soup and for her family and and, you know, I grew up in Sacramento, California. And in the summers it can get up to, like, triple digit temperatures, 100 plus degrees, and it's hot, and she's still, like, at four o'clock say, hi, everybody. Come up to call and say, come pick up your soup. It's like, grandma, really soup today. She's like, it's good for you. Pick up your damn soup. And she would know exactly what. Type of soup to make. So if it's a hot July day, grandma would walk out in the morning and read the weather, and so she'd say, oh, it's going to be a lot of like too much fire today. It's a real scorcher of a day. So she would go inside and make seaweed and tofu soup or watercress soup. And even though the soup was piping hot when you drank it, the water properties that were in the seaweed or the watercress would actually cool your constitution. So those of you acupuncture or traditional Chinese medicine, you know what that feels like, right? Wow. Grandma did that through food and or if it was like a really cold January day and the the wind was coming off the Sacramento River and cutting through you, like knives, right? She would say, oh, there's too much metal today. It's cutting through you like knives. So she would make an earth based soup, like oxtail soup with daikon radish and carrots, meat, vegetables and the earth properties would actually envelop and absorb the cutting of that of the knives of the wind and would come you So grandma without sitting me down at some point. So this is a five wil she was actually feeding me the philosophy. Wow, beautiful. So there are three things I want y'all to remember, and this is covered in chapter one of the books. So the thing you need to know about the East Asian practice of the five elements is number one. As you said, there are five elements in our system. They are water, wood, fire, earth and metal. So oftentimes, traditions have four. We have five with the addition of metal. Other times people ask, Well, where is air? Because air is really important in in in my tradition, and we say the same thing, but for for us, my people are so pragmatic. Wil, it's like you can't see the air. You cannot see the air unless it's blowing through the trees. So whenever I mention the element of wood, it also includes the characteristics of air. So I might talk about wind or thunder, and that would be an embedded element, character of wood. Principle two is that the elements work in two different ways. One is a supportive cycle. More formation, and it goes in a circle. So if you kind of lay out the elements, or look at the book, or go to my website, you'll see that they're like they're they're formed in a circle, and it starts with water, like at seven o'clock on a clock, feeding wood at nine o'clock, wood feeling fire, which is at 12 o'clock, right? Fire. Out of fire comes ash or Earth, which would be Earth, would be at three o'clock. And then out of Earth, if you mine deep enough, comes minerals or metal, and the metal would be at five o'clock. And then finally, metal condenses to form water. So you have water to wood, to fire to Earth to metal, forming a circle. This

Wil Fisher  27:50  
is like an alchemical process of being connected in this cycle.

Kevin  27:54  
And if they're supporting each other, that's that's one way to get to balance, or find that medicine that we keep talking about. The other is a is a star formation. So if you think about fire, is, I mean water. Water controls fire. Fire melts or tempers metal. Yeah, right. Metal chops wood. Wood takes and depletes the nutrients from the earth, and then Earth channels or contains water. If you build an irrigation ditch or you have a ceramic pitcher that will contain water. And so what my grandmother did was work with these two different formations to say, ah, too much fire. So I'm going to employ water which restrains fire to get to balance. Or if there's an excess of metal, she might use the supporting cycle and say, Earth supports metal, right? So I'm just going to envelop the metal in Earth and make it feel nice and secure, and then that will, that will bright, provide the medicine. So grandma used both. It's not like the restraining is always bad and the supporting. What we have to do is find the right balance of elements so we can bring in the right medicine to bring us to balance. Yes, brilliant. That's, that's what I've kind of taken and done. And so like, fast forward, I was about seven, till I was 27 I was directing an AIDS clinic here in the Bay Area, and it was the height of the epidemic. So it was like the late 80s. Wow, my 20s, what I was doing. And, you know, when we opened the doors to the clinic, I mean, some of folks might remember this, we you would not know what we were going to be facing through the

Wil Fisher  29:31  
day. My gosh, Kevin and so, so intense, you know,

Kevin  29:35  
so intense. And I would look at my staff and think, How can I help them be balanced and really like whole and so they can be, they can provide their best selves to to our clients and patients. And I started using the five elements, wow, if I, if I walked in and, you know, 15 minutes before we opened the doors, and my staff was, like, on fire. Like. They were just like, you know, there was tension, and the voices were raised, and it was like people were just burning up. And it's like, we haven't even locked the doors yet. I knew I needed to bring in water, and so it was sort of like, Okay, everybody, I would literally pour them a cup of water and say, just have a Have some water. Let's, let's just take a few deep breaths to get ourselves anchored, talk about the mission and purpose of our organization. So we anchored ourselves in common value and common purpose. And then it's sort of like, okay, let's just take a moment and reflect on our intention for the day, right? And my job, you

Wil Fisher  30:36  
know, real quick, not to cut you off, but not to cut you off. But it's so interesting because I have noticed how oftentimes, when big emotional eruptions happen, that a common thing to do is to offer them a glass of water. And I always wonder, why, why would that be the practice? Like, why do they want to it's not that they were screaming and, you know, maybe their throat is dry, but maybe, but even if they were just crying, like, why water? But that makes sense. Maybe that's just a natural, you know, intuitive thing, where people are seeing that, oh, we need to, we need to cool this fire. Interesting. That's

Kevin  31:12  
kind of the premise of the five elements, really wil is that, you know, our bodies being sentient beings and organic beings made up of all the elements, right? We have them all inside of us that we know, if we can just kind of get out of our own way, we would know intuitively what we might need. And so I was working yesterday with somebody, and they, you literally use the terms, I have too many irons in the fire, yeah. And so I'm like, I find myself working like, 14 hours a day and not getting enough done, and, you know, feeling inadequate, and this and that I have so many irons in the fire. And so when I think about that literally, what they said was that there's an imbalance of fire and metal, right? Iron being metal, and so they have too many irons in the fire. That means that there's, like, they've got all these things to do, but they're not focused. Fire brings focus and direction and warmth and energy and so and so I then figured out what language I needed to use in order to get that sense of balance so. So I just employed that medicine, and I elected to use the element of Earth and say, Okay, so let's, let's take a moment and just get yourself grounded right. Who is in your community? Who can you ask count on to ask for some help. Where are you going to when was the last time you ate like that? And so just that sense that I am not alone. I'm being cared for and nurtured, and that I can with you determine which irons need the most intention, and which irons we might be able to just pull out of the fire. Sure, and then, because at that point, they were like, running on fumes. There was no steel left. So it's like, it's not, it's not going to help me to just kind of increase your fire. You're exhausted and you haven't eaten, and so let me just ground you. And then let's figure out which let's take some irons out, right? And then they'll always be here on the side, and then we'll put them in. But that was how I dealt with it, and so, but thanks to my grandmother and my other teachers, I was able to use the the philosophy of the five elements to come up with a really practical solution for my friend. I love that.

Wil Fisher  33:29  
Yeah, I love that. And so it's been with you from the beginning of your career. I probably from before then too more intuitively, but now you've been using in a very intentional and conscious way?

Kevin  33:42  
Yeah, I think so. And that's partly what, you know, what Martha Graham talks about is our blood memory, like we have stuff that's and it could be trauma or it could be medicine that's in our blood memory, but the stuff lives inside ourselves from our and from our from our ancestors, right? Yes. And so my grandmother kind of awoke this blood memory in me, but I actually needed to go to college and find teachers and get get the discipline, and find the framework, learn the language of this, and and then. And then, from that, I had really great teachers who said, Okay, Kevin, you've taken this 4500 year old philosophy, right? 4500 years old, yeah. And now it's your it's like, it's your responsibility, your kuleana, as we say in Hawaiian, to bring this to the 21st century. So that's why I wrote the book and created the app and have the website. It's like, and they're just blown away. They're like, Wait, so if I calculated your five elements profile in the old days before the app, it would take me about seven minutes, because I'd have to, like, go through these charts and formulas and this and that, and then I come to it. But now you can go to the app, it takes you, like, four seconds, right? So, yeah, thanks to, I didn't create it, thanks to Nathan Martel who, who's this, like, this tech person who. It, and so it's now available for everybody, which is kind of so cool. It's not like this mystical, ancient piece of wisdom, we're actually applying it now. So

Wil Fisher  35:10  
I love that. Yeah, and tell me more about some of the applications, some of the things that you've seen be very effective and useful for folks.

Kevin  35:18  
Ooh, can we talk about you? Oh, sure,

Wil Fisher  35:20  
yeah. I mean, I am so grateful that I got to receive from Kevin. And actually, it was so fun, because not only did I give him my info in order to receive, but I gave him my boyfriend's info and my mom's info, and then my boyfriend happened to be there when I was receiving. So then he pulled up a chair, and then he got to receive. And yeah, it was so so valuable and so fascinating and so spot on, some of these assessments and and also some of the ways that, yeah, I loved also hearing about the way that my boyfriend and I's our charts complement each other in a good way. That was really because it's a fairly new relationship. So it's helpful to be able to see these things from this wider perspective and with, with, you know, a a holistic approach. But, yeah, let's, let's talk more about me,

Kevin  36:12  
about you, because it's so fun. And, you know, I would say it doesn't always turn out this way, but this time it did. Wil, so when I took your your so it's calculated at y'all, it's calculated from your birth date, Wil. We can have a longer conversation offline about that. You're curious. But I take, I took wil birthday, which is a set of numbers, right? And we all have a birthday. We're all born at some point. So it just gives us a baseline. It's a set of numbers. In the old way, I would take that set of numbers, which is based on the Gregorian calendar, and then translate that into the a different set of numbers based on the lunar calendar, and put it through a series of mathematical formulas to determine what your elements are. You can have up to three of the five elements. Now I just use the app. So we just punch your birth date in, and then boom, and your three elements that came up were earth, fire and water. Yep, right. Birth, fire and water and so that then says, Even though wil has all five elements in him, that just says, This is what is predominant when you are feeling at your very best, you're bringing in Earth or the facilitator, which is exactly what you do in your life. You know, people turn to you for that, but you also have the influence of fire, and you're brilliant. You are you're very keen on how you see the world. The body part of fire is the eyes, you know, so you really bring that through. But you also bring in water energy, which we talked about earlier, and that's the energy of the philosopher, that sense of deep knowing your highest aspiration is the truth with the capital T, and you're always inquiring and asking that question, why? You know, I just got off the phone with our friend Michelle, and Michelle lives in in New Mexico, but she travels to a lot, and she, I gotta figure out what this term is. Michelle talked about a these deep pools in Mexico that look very non discrete, like, you know, non threatening, but they could be like, 80 feet deep, wow. And so that's your water energy. It's like, okay, so you present yourself, right? Non threatening, not this and that. But it's like some people might treat you with a lot of formality, because they see the depth in you and and there might be a little bit of like, oh my gosh, if I get too close to Wil, I might fall in and lose myself. You're that same, right? So you're bringing in the energy of of earth, fire and water, right? And then. And so what's missing? Like, what do you need? What elements do you need to bring back full balance? It is, of course, metal and wood, metal and wood. Yeah, yeah. And then, not knowing this, we brand your boyfriend's chart. And what does he bring? Wil, metal and wood, metal and wood. And so it was like, you know, dearest, you are, like, you found the perfect compliment for you, right? And so it was, so we were talking about this balance, and then he comes in and it's like, oh, well, let's do your chart. And boom, you found the right medicine. And so sometimes the world looks like just kind of operates that way, and other times we have to be more intentional. So for my chart, I just happen to be all Earth. So everything is Earth, which means I'm missing four elements, right? And that doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's just that I have to be more intentional, or I have to be more disciplined about cultivating those other parts, the fire in me, the wood in me, the metal in me, the water in me. Or to go and seek those elements to get to balance, yeah, so maybe that's why I don't I'm not so attuned to desert cows because I already got enough Earth, right, sure. And so I'll go to the beach to really get water, which actually. Controls water, right? Earth channels water. So it makes me feel powerful to be in, yeah, it gives me strength and energy. I didn't know that before, like I studied the five elements, but now that I do, I can actually put that into my intentions and prayers. So before I go into the water to swim, I'm just saying, you know, like, Can my cells, my earth cells, sort of receive this, and I feel more empowered, more emboldened, more ready to be of service in the world that's

Wil Fisher  40:31  
so beautiful. And that's just it, right? It's like having this information helps us be more intentional when we're looking for balance, when we're looking to be more nurtured and nourished in the world. And so it really is this. You know, there's other approaches to self realization and knowing yourself, but it's just another one of these beautiful ways to get to know ourselves better, and not only know ourselves and our strengths and our needs, but know these different access points to receiving those needs, and then with that additional knowledge and information, like you said in that simple example of praying into the water instead of just splashing around, it's like I'm going to set myself up and set up my energetic field in a way that I can receive this more thoroughly in a more effective way. There's so much value in that just using that knowledge to be more intentional in finding our balance and finding our way forward in a good way. So true.

Kevin  41:37  
So true. Wil and I think you know this notion of intentionality is going to be so much more needed and important in these times, because we're going to be getting attacked and other I mean, it's already happening, right? I just saw that, you know, it's like, you can only use like, federal employees can only like, have to take out pronouns from their signatures and all that stuff. And so it's happening now and and when you're feeling that, how can I not get sidetracked or seduced or or or caught up in all of that? Right? Yeah. So how do we maintain our core, our center, our sense of balance. And sometimes we have to seek that out ourselves. Like, okay, I need to go for a swim. I just need a glass of water. Or I need to to bring fire. I'll rub my hands together like this, you know, and then put them on my hands, in my heart, on my heart, my belly, and just take a few deep breaths, right? Or whatever that might be. So for you to know which elements you need, yes, what, what can I do? And just instinctively go there

Wil Fisher  42:48  
for me to go get spooned by my boyfriend, yeah?

Kevin  42:54  
Like looking behind you? You have these beautiful plants behind you, right? And just to say, Okay, I'm gonna, I need wood energy, so I'm just gonna sing that envelop myself

Wil Fisher  43:03  
100% maybe some more metal in my life too. Huh?

Kevin  43:07  
Or metal in your life wouldn't be a bad thing. I would say, though, that, you know, living in these times, we have an abundance of metal. Sure, yeah, that makes sense. And as I mean, people ask, why do you need metal? It's like well as as, as sentient beings, in order to live and to survive, we actually need metals or mineral, right? We need iron, right? We need sodium, we need zinc, right? But we only need them in really trace amounts. So if we had too much in it, we would die, right? And that's what's happening right now. In our society. We have too much metal. We have play dates, and we have we're working until 12 one o'clock. We have all these

Wil Fisher  43:47  
structured things connected on these devices, yeah, literally electronic

Kevin  43:51  
stuff, and it's killing us, right? And so, um, so I think it's like you got, I you probably have plenty of metal. Part of it is how you like you have plenty of irons in the fire. I know that of you wil 1000 different irons in the fire. And part of that is being intentional and helpful in which iron cure, yes,

Wil Fisher  44:19  
putting cultivating, yeah, that focus piece, yeah, yeah, beautiful. Oh. Love this. I love this so much, and I'm so excited for my listeners to get to play with it and explore it and experience it. I'm definitely going to put links for them, anything you want to share in terms of what they can do to connect with this work, outside of the links that I'll have in the show notes. Yeah,

Kevin  44:40  
there's several things that that anybody can do. One is just to go to the website. My five elements dot life. And then the calculator is right there, so start playing with it. Just enter your your birth date, and see what comes up. And then there's kind of like little guides in there that you can go deeper in. Go. Our YouTube channel at my five elements life. And then I've got, like, if you're a caregiver, I've got a little one minute video that talks about what the caregiver is, or you can get the book. And then, of course, I'm on social media, and I post these, like, what are they called? I work with these young people, so I do need, like, memes or reels, reels, that's it. So they're like 92nd things, and talk about how, like, different elements are showing up. So I was, I was in Jackson, Mississippi, right? And I flew through Dallas, and I got stranded in Dallas overnight due to the thunderstorms. It was like 430 in the morning. And, you know, DFW is a busy airport, but there was nobody, like, nobody in the hallways, wow. And so I just shot this thing about the like, how the elements are showing up in this really empty airport, and it's impacting me, right, cool. And so it's kind of like that. So you could the the really cool thing about this wil is that we're always surrounded by the elements, 24/7, like you could be in Costco and you're surrounded by the elements and and part of what I do is just sort of say, how is it impacting me right now? Yeah, and, and then, how is it, is it actually bringing good healing energy, or is it taking energy away? So if I know that it's really cold, like you walk into the freezer thing at Costco, it's like, I don't even do that anymore, because I know that is going to be the excess of bad water, which is ice, yeah, and I can't thrive in that. And so, um, and so I'll take a breath, like I can. I'll warm my hands, take a breath and go in, get my stuff, and then come back out as quickly as possible. But other people like they're just Yeah, walking around, wandering in there, yeah. And so, um. So I think part of that is, is staying in contact and connection and seeing if this can really help you stay in balance and kind of maintain your sense of of of joy, of of service to both yourself and to others in a sense of well being. Yeah. So Fauci, on, on, on, it's Kevin John Fong, where the or my five elements and life, my five elements life and and we'll stay in contact. Yeah.

Wil Fisher  47:16  
I love that, yeah. And I love this call back to center, just remembering that there are ways to come back to center, and this is a beautiful a beautiful set of tools and a lens from which you can come back to center and be assisted in that. So yeah, as we wrap up any final words wisdom you want to share with the listeners of queerly beloved today.

Kevin  47:41  
Well, thank you. Thank you. Wil. I just appreciate all that you bring in to the world, which is so much needed, that sense that we belong and that we're part of this, and that there's joy. One of my teachers, Miss grace. Lee Boggs often say, and she lit she she died when she was 100 years and 100 days old. Wow. She was born when Woodrow Wilson was president, and so my gosh and and grace always said that, you know, being born at this moment in time, in 1915 female and Chinese, I knew that my life would be a struggle. But what I did every single day was make sure I experienced joy in the struggle, whether it was just a laugh with a friend or, you know, a lovely cup of tea, or doing like crossing off something that I was working on and really accomplished, just to have that. And so I hope that you all can find that sense of joy in the midst of the struggle. It's going to be a tough road ahead of us, for all of us, and know that you know we can turn to each other and just say, You okay, you good, bring a little laugh or smile to each other, and I think that would that's gonna be helpful in getting us through these times. The other thing I'll say is just take care of yourself, understand what you need to cultivate and maintain your own sense of well being. And I hope that the teachings from my grandmother and from my lineage. I mean, it worked for them for 4500 years, something's there, there's something there, right? And if it can help you all, I am more than happy to share that with you generously and wonderfully. Thank you

Wil Fisher  49:37  
so much for that invitation to tap into our joy. And yeah, going back to this sentiment of the misfits, the queers, the in betweens, the rascals, I love, I love that word too, as being potential way finders of this new path forward, we also are pretty good at tapping into joy. And so that's a superpower that. We need to remember and recall and bring forth during these times. And one final question, I did get your grandmother's name? I'd love to hear her name to honor her and in this space, if that feels

Kevin  50:10  
good. This is, this is my maternal grandmother. Her formal name was Quang Lai, Fong Ji. But that was always like, that was on documents and governance stuff she would never we called her. We called her Paul, Paul So Paul, wonderful. That's how I know her. In our dialect, the formal way, is pawpaw. We actually called her poo Po, oh yeah, and so, or could be, actually, we started adding the H because P, O denote other stuff, but it's Po, O, H was the Winnie the poo reference. I love that. I love that. So, yeah, so you can just refer to Kevin's grandmother, his poo. I love that. And and she, she was a cool grandmother. She She drove in 1968 barracuda. That was, was burgundy, and so I would always want her to drive me to to school, because I'd be the cool kid getting out of of my grandmother's barracuda. So I love

Wil Fisher  51:17  
it. I dedicate this episode to her and her wisdom. Thank you too. Thank you wil beautiful. So much love to you. Thank you again. Bye.