Becoming VISIBLE with Julian Crosson-Hill

In this episode of Queerly Beloved, Wil sits down with Julian Crosson-Hill, a spiritual life & business coach, human design coach, and speaker whose superpower is helping people get visible and live authentically. Julian works with gay men over 50 to overcome the challenges of aging in a youth-obsessed culture, and with spiritual entrepreneurs navigating visibility in an industry that often prizes appearances over substance.

Together, we explore:

• 🌈 Visibility & Aging – the challenges older gay men face in a culture obsessed with youth.
• 🕊 Queer Spirituality – moving from acceptance to full celebration of who we are.
• ✨ Elders & Community – the role of queer elders as wisdom keepers, activists, and memory holders.
• 🎨 Creativity as Resistance – how queer creativity becomes a spiritual gift and act of rebellion.
• 🔮 Human Design – what it is, how it works, and how it can support authenticity.

This is a conversation about authenticity, legacy, and the courage to be seen.

Connect with Julian:
👉 Website: thejuliancrossonhill.com

Connect with Wil:
👉 Website: www.wil-fullyliving.com

Watch these interviews on Youtube here
👉 Website: https://www.youtube.com/@willfullyliving4357

Listen to Julian's show "The Queer Spirituality Podcast" here
👉 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-queer-spirituality-podcast/id1620053424

Get your Human Design Chart
👉 Website: https://www.geneticmatrix.com/free-foundation-chart/

Transcript

Wil Fisher  
Wil, hello, Julian, so good to see you. Welcome to queerly Beloved. Hi. Wil, it's great to be here. I'm so happy that we're getting a chance to do this. I really enjoyed being on your podcast a while back, and I just love how connected our work is and even our shows are and so yeah, this is a great joy to get to drop in with you today. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation indeed. So I always start these interviews with the same question, and it's a little bit of a creative one. So if it's helpful, I can go first. But the question is to check in with yourself in this moment and tell me, who are you in this moment, but tell me by describing a drag avatar that embodies that, oh my gosh, a Drag avatar that embodies that, Oh, wow.

Julian  
drag avatar. So I don't know. I guess maybe I don't have a single drag avatar that I think describes who I am in this moment. But I think if you mixed Vita Bo am and noxie, noxie jacks Jackson, yeah, NOx EMA Jackson from TU Wong Fu, I think, yeah, we arrived pretty much there, like, you know, like, kind of the wisdom of being a little older and grounded that Vita had with some of the sass that noxie, those are both queens from TU Wong Fu, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, great. Okay, I need to re watch that movie. It's been a while, but yes, so I'm hearing a Sass and a wisdom keeper and bringing those together in a great drag alchemy, Yep, absolutely, I'll take it. I love it, and it's an invitation to re watch that movie. I love that movie, but it's been a while, fabulous. Yeah, so I'll check in and,

Wil Fisher  
oh yeah, as we were, you know, ready to jump on, we were mentioning how Labor Day is fast approaching, and how falls coming in. And so my drag avatar today is,

Wil Fisher  
is like a changing leaf, you know, some still holding on to that green, but like starting to move into those fall tones and

Wil Fisher  
and I'd say she's kind of like mixed in her emotions around that there's there's some excitement and gratitude knowing that the grounding and the there's a certain comfort level of fall that that comes with that season for me, but also a little bit of sadness. As as my my greenness starts to fade away. And it's funny, because I'm wearing, like, a green shirt, and then I have some kind of fall colors on this, this pendant, this necklace. So, yeah, so I'm kind of like a a fall leaf. And, you know, if we were to put it into it, a queen who takes the stage? She's, you know, in a green dress that's as she performs, slowly moving into the fall colors.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, Thanks for, thanks for entertaining that, that question with me. So, yeah, I'm super excited to hear more about your work. You know, I didn't realize until I was researching you today, that you were a Human Design Specialist, and so I'm excited to drop in on some of that stuff too, but I'd love to start by you just sharing how you got into the work that you

Julian  
do. Wow, so that's like so many people in this kind of work, I think, you know, it's been a long, circuitous path, you know, it's been a winding so,

Julian  
you know, in high school, I thought it was going to be, I originally was going to study engineering and be I was really interested in robotics. And then around my junior senior year, I got really interested in art in any particular fashion. So I learned to sew at an early age. Made all my clothes through high school. That's really what I wanted to do. Unfortunately, my father had different ideas and insisted that I go to the to the school where I had a scholarship was, which was the University of New Mexico, and so, you know, no fashion program. So I decided to be a fine arts major, and I studied photography, and then got out of college, and the realities of paying bills and things like that hit, and I actually went into this really new field at the time called web design. So, yeah, I'm that old, and spent 30 years in software engineering, and then, you know, in human design, we always talk about around 50 is when your Chiron return happens. You know, the asteroid, the sort of, the archetype of that wounded healer kind of comes back. And so at that time, I really started like looking more at purpose and what do I want? How do I want to bring meaning to my life? How do I want to floor? Is. Especially as I move into my later years, you know, and I think also turning 50 for a lot of us, starts making us think about our legacy, you know, a gay man, no children, you know, what do I leave behind? How do people remember me if I'm not passing on children or, you know, things like that. And so I had always been involved in queer, spirituality. I'd been a facilitator of workshops founded between the worlds, you know, in like 2002 so I had done a lot of that work, and I decided, you know, this is really the kind of work I want to do. I want to work with people, not machines. And it was an offhand comment by a friend that I had given some advice to that said I should hire you as my coach. That made me go, Huh, coach. I never really thought about myself that way. So I started looking into life coaching, and went and got my certification and started my business, and the rest is history, as they say. But you know, it was just kind of, it was a to me, it was a classic human design thing. You know, I'm a manifesting generator, which means I'm very driven by my sacral response. And that person saying you should be, I should hire you as a coach, was like, yep, that's what I meant to do. So, yeah,

Wil Fisher  
that's beautiful, yeah? So you felt that immediate Fuck yes, as they say, yeah, that's beautiful, right in the sacral I happen to be a manifesting generator too. And so, yeah, I love to ask a couple of follow up questions. So one is around the Chiron return. So could you share a little bit more about what you mean by that?

Julian  
Yeah, so the Chiron return, so when you're born, you know the all the planets are in a certain position in your human design chart. And Chiron is, you know, a large asteroid has a lot of influence on us. And the archetype of Chiron is the wounded healer. So it's about how we transmute our biggest woundings into our like power and our magic as a healer, how do we heal other people from that wounded place that we have been in? And so the Chiron return just basically means, you know, Chiron moves very slowly. And so right around 50 is when Chiron returns to where it was when you were born. And so it kind of activates that, like quest for like purpose and desire to like do something more like meaningful, and particularly around like healing and spirituality and those kinds of things.

Wil Fisher  
And where are you able to identify the wounds that you healed that have brought you into the healing that you get to offer?

Julian  
Yeah, so, so, you know, you can always look at your human design chart at the gate, but you know, I would say that some of the biggest woundings that I've dealt with, you know, if I just without even looking at my gait, I can say, like, definitely there. There have been wounds around, like masculinity and my relationship with my father, you know, and for me, healing that was finally coming to peace with just saying there's never going to be a relationship there, and closing the door on that. And then I think also, you know, through my splenic definition of my human design, I also have an activation in the gate that sort of triggers that whole fear of rejection. So, you know, becoming a coach, so much of it is about being visible and putting yourself out here in this way. And that was really difficult initially for me. I had always been pretty shy and introverted and so and I always called myself a reluctant leader, like even back when I founded between the worlds and was facilitating that so. So a lot of that wounding was around that fear of rejection and just getting comfortable enough in my own skin and in my authenticity to be like, This is who I am. Take it or leave it, you know. So,

Wil Fisher  
yeah, beautiful, yeah, let's, let's go down the visibility rabbit hole a little bit and explore that. I mean, it's interesting. One of the things that popped out for me was you sharing that you were designing all your clothes in high school, which is so fabulous. And so I imagine in that act alone, there was a certain amount of visibility that you were claiming, but but perhaps not she. Want to share a little bit about your relationship with visibility,

Julian  
yeah, so, so in high school, I was designing a lot of my clothes and, but I was also like, we didn't call ourselves. Got them. We were new waivers. And, you know, and I hung out with the punks and so we, I was in that sort of subculture which also kind of created that buffer, right? Sure, sort of you're the rebel and the outsider, and so it kind of created a safety or a wall, kind of that you could be visible and have that style and have your friends in the subculture appreciate it, but you weren't really like interfacing with the with the mainstream. Got it. So then, you know, as you as I grew older, and, you know, stepped into owning a business and being a coach, then it becomes more about putting yourself out there in a bigger way. And so that that took some, took some doing,

Wil Fisher  
yeah, yeah, beautiful, yeah. I was just reading a friend of mine posting on. Instagram today about visibility amongst gay men, I'll be curious to talk to you more about elder gay men and how this comes into play. But this was more directed to just queer people in general, and what it was focusing on is the shape shifting that many of us did growing up in a society where we were worried about being rejected and being outcasts and not feeling safe. And so in a sense, the idea was that we have learned how to make ourselves invisible. We have learned how to wear masks in order to be safe. And that part of the healing and transformation process that queer folks are tasked with is finding the courage to take off those masks and to move into an authentic expression of self without the shape shifting. And it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it resonates with me. I mean, so much of my work is about supporting queer folks to claim their authenticity, to find it. I mean, for many of us, because we've been wearing so many masks, we believe that we are those masks, and so we forget who we are, and it's a process to really deconstruct these identities that we've been using to keep us safe, releasing them and letting them go so that we can start to reveal what is underneath these masks. And that takes a lot of courage, and that takes a lot of determination to be committed to finding our truth and then expressing our truth. Yeah, just curious if any of that resonates. And, yeah, anything, yeah, it

Julian  
totally resonates. I mean, that's so for all of us. You know, human design, the whole process is about deconditioning, like letting go of all those things that were put on us, like, through our growing up, through the energy of the people that we're around the environment, you know, all that stuff that pulls us away from who we really are. And it's even more so, you know, obviously, for for queer people, because there is that that need to kind of hide, to be safe initially. And I think that, I think that's where some of the like, misunderstandings and like breakdown in our community is happening, is that younger people are growing up, have grown up in a more accepting, more mainstream thing, where they feel like, Oh, it's just mainstream. Now I don't have to be a certain way. I don't need queer community. But now we're seeing this backlash, and I think it's catching a lot of people off guard, because suddenly they don't know how to protect themselves or be safe or be authentic in a way that still, you know, creates that acceptance for them, and they haven't built that support network, so a lot of people are kind of having the rug pulled out from under them. Now,

Wil Fisher  
yeah, that makes sense that, because there hasn't been the same level of need for supportive community because of, yeah, the acceptance of mainstream society, which, but which is now becoming clear that that need does exist, that that need always wil exist, no matter how accepted we are. I believe that that the intergenerational connections and the the coherence of a broader LGBTQ community is vital for us to be able to show up in our full power and express our full gifts. But it is. It does make sense that because of, in some ways, the progress that we've made, it has taken a little bit of a back burner. Yeah,

Julian  
yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think, I think it's always important to have queer space, you know, our lived experience is going to be so different. And I do believe that queer people have inherent spiritual gifts that, you know, we're meant to bring to the world, and so we've got to, like, build that community first kind of practice using those gifts and strengthening those gifts in that safe place of our community, so that we can build that bigger table to let the rest of the collective in and experience those gifts as well. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  
I love that. Yeah. Would you share a little more about what you think some of the specific queer spiritual gifts are, or just your ideas around queer spirituality in general? Would be great. Well,

Julian  
so, so my So, my ideas about queer spirituality in general is, you know, that queer spirituality needs to be a place that celebrates who we are authentically, not just accepts it, you know, so that we often hear this, Wil, it's accepted. Well, I don't want to be accepted. I want to be celebrated for who I am. I also think that you know it needs to be sex positive. You know you can't embrace just part of who you are and and you know sexuality is a wonderful spiritual gift as well, and we need to be sure that it fits into that framework of our sacredness and our spirituality as well. So, you know, queer spirituality, to me, is about the. Finding you're kind of forging your own path, really, in a lot of ways, finding the spirituality that nourishes your soul, but that also like supports and uplifts you as a queer person, as you know, fully embracing all of who you are. So yeah, so that's so as far as some of the spiritual gifts, I think that you know, most of my experiences lived as a gay man. So it may be different for other queer people and other experiences, but I think that queer men have, you know, a great deal of compassion when they allow themselves to. It's something that Toby Johnson has talked about extensively in a lot of his writing as well. Is about the compassion of that gay men have. I think there's this obvious, like ability to sort of balance the masculine and feminine, to find that like logic and also that like creativity, that flow and that structure, like we just have that ability to kind of walk that middle road really well. And I think that our collective can learn a lot from that. And then I just think that, you know, the creativity, the artistic vision, you know, a lot of those things are incredible spiritual gifts as well. So there's, there's a number of them. And of course, everybody has their unique expressions of them, but, but they're, they're vital and really needed in the world right now.

Wil Fisher  
Beautiful. Yeah, one of the ones that you just touched on that is really sticking up for me and resonating for me right now is the capacity to create. And of course, all all people have a great capacity to create. But I do think that there's something unique about the queer lens when it comes to creation, I think part of that comes from the fact that we from a very young age, we're told that who we are and and the life that we might desire from the depths of our soul is not accepted, acceptable, and not good and not right, and so we have then needed to move through a portal, reject those ideas and and in turn, create our own paths. And so creativity is almost a portal that queer folks have needed to move through in terms of creating a life path that works for us, that resonates for us. And so I love how our creativity towards life itself is also a possible access point to creating art, creating ideas and programs and creating rituals and stories and and I personally, and, yeah, you know, I just got back from fairy camp destiny, where we put on a play. And I'm just, I just started this new vocal improv class two days ago, and I'm just like feeling the buzz of creativity recently and wanting to give more time and energy to creativity. And it just feels like a a an important piece of this time right now for us to to find our way back into creativity, and as a as an act of rebellion against what we're seeing in the larger mainstream, oppressive society that we're living under.

Julian  
Yeah, absolutely creativity, like, you know, artists and writers, you know, they've always been sort of activists as well, the ones really pushing society in a new direction. And I just think, like, creativity is so unique to queer people, and oftentimes it's because, you know, all that energy that would normally go into procreation gets channeled into creation instead, you know. And so it's almost like, yeah, it's like this divine impulse. It's like, Wil instead of like creating offspring, we're creating art and literature and music and beauty in the world instead. And I think that's a wonderful way to sort of look at that.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now, going back to the visibility thread that we started earlier, I know that one of the things that you talk about is visibility, and the challenge of visibility, particularly among gay men, as they age. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about that perspective.

Julian  
Yeah, I think, you know, well, we live in a youth obsessed culture, you know, not just, and I'm not just talking about gay culture, I'm talking about overall I mean, you know, you hear about, like, 10 year old kids using anti aging products. And, you know, spending fortunes at Sephora and and, you know, the queer community has always kind of had that as well. You know, the idea of youth and beauty and all this. So it, it becomes easy for aging men to start to feel invisible because they no longer fit that. I. Big deal. They no longer get noticed as easily, and we haven't, because our community has kind of started to fragment a little bit, because it's been more mainstream acceptance. You know, younger people are less engaged in the community. We the Internet, apps have kind of taken away a lot of the spaces, you know, bars we don't have the gay bars and the coffee houses and the things that we had before. There's not really a place for older gay men to be seen, and there's really not a place for their wisdom and their lived experience to be appreciated. You know, everything is kind of, you know, if you know, when I came out, I had a lot of older friends, and which was great. I learned a great deal from them, and they also watched out for me and helped me stay safe. But I think today, now, if an older gay man is creating a friendship or, you know, with a younger person, there's this assumption that there's something sexual, or that he's an old perv or something like that, and it creates this sort of invisibility for older gay men as they age, and especially, you know, some of them that maybe have been partnered and now they're trying to re enter dating like there's just so many challenges with that, with aging and a youth obsessed culture that I think helping them, helping older gay men find that flourishing, you know, which is a positive psychology term, you know, helping them find flourishing and create that visibility for themselves is important.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, and what do you think is lost when we don't see our elders? What do you think is lost when elders do become our queer elders become invisible.

Julian  
Yeah, well, I think, I think this erosion of community is part of it, right? Because that we lose our history, you know, now we're, we're facing some of the same challenges that we experienced years ago. And who were the activists who, you know, fought back against that stuff, the older people, some of them are, and we're losing some of them as well, and we're not preserving our history. And our history is so critical to really understanding where we've come and, you know, history repeats itself, you know, maybe different tactics, different words, but it's the same bigotry, and it comes back in a cycle, and we need to preserve our history so that we know how did we handle this last time. And I think, I think an additional challenge there is that those of us who are growing older don't all have really great role models of even how to hold that place and be those mentors to the next generation, because so many of our older people were lost to the AIDS epidemic, course.

Wil Fisher  
So what are some solutions? Do you help elders address this? And in what ways can you you support folks who might be experiencing this?

Julian  
Yeah, so I so my my work revolves around human design and positive psychology in a coaching approach. And it's really about helping them find that flourishing for themselves. You know, first of all, it's about getting rid of all those masks you like, you know, being authentic, because it's harder to be visible when you're hiding. And then it's really about, like, I think a lot of it is about, how do we rebuild that community piece and in a way that appreciates the wisdom of our elders, that appreciates that. And I think a lot of us feel, you know, when you feel invisible, you're less likely to speak up, you're less likely to do the things that have an impact. And so once you start to find that confidence, to just be yourself, to make yourself visible, you're more willing to speak up. And then I think that even amplifies the visibility, people start to hear, hear you, and they start to realize, hey, there's there's some wisdom, there's some value here, and maybe I should pay attention.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I'm present too at elder gay men who attended one of my treats, and that was a common theme for him, was that he felt like he was invisible. He felt like he would show up at spaces and no one would see him and and I imagine that there's both things happening here. There is yes, this youth obsessed society that has prioritized youth and focuses more on youth. And then there's also this self, self afflicted prophecy, right? When we've decided that we are invisible, then we are invisible. It's like we put on our invisible cloak by saying that no one can see me. And I believe that in some ways, visibility is a choice that we get to or we can chew courageously choose to be visible and have our voice heard and be seen, but that it's a two way street that we that elder gay men or gay men people in general, need to. Wil take up that space, and that is, as I mentioned, a courageous act. It's not easy, especially when there are forces pushing up against that and trying to make us invisible.

Julian  
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And a lot of it, a lot of it, has to do with the confidence piece too. You know, you know, older gay men sometimes like, Yeah, our culture's youth obsessed. You can definitely choose to be visible. But I also think that, you know, as an older gay man, you can also choose to be sexy. You know, you can choose to be attractive. And I think sometimes people allow the lack of confidence in that to keep them from being visible in other ways. You know, they feel like, Oh, I'm this old troll now so I can't be visible and share my wisdom, because people won't hear it, because I'm not as attractive or whatever. But that's not, that's not true and and that's, again, that's bigger than just the queer community. That's a societal thing. I mean, look at, look at the flack Madonna has taken for being, you know, an openly sexual older woman. You know, we've got this idea that after a certain age, you're not supposed to be sexy, you're not supposed to be attractive, you're not supposed to want those things. And of course, it's all bullshit. You know, we need to take that power back, and, you know, show up confident in who we are. And you know, beauty is more than skin deep. You know, there's, there's lots of layers to attractiveness, and there's a lot of things that make a person sexy.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, I love that. And that you can be sexy and claim your sexiness without being that old troll, right? Without being this skeevy skeezy guy who's trying to, like, get with people who aren't necessarily attracted to him, that you know, in the same way that a youth who is confident in their sexuality isn't necessarily trying to have sex with everybody in the room, like older gay men, can also claim their sexiness and be in that power without there needing to be a story that them owning their sexuality and their sexiness means that they are trying to, you know, be exploitive to the the younger queers in the room.

Julian  
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, you know, they're there. You can, you can be that. And actually, I think, I think you're more powerfully attractive when you aren't trying to do that. You know, yeah, absolutely,

Wil Fisher  
yeah, yeah, yeah, for any for the young queer or the older queer, yeah, it's like, just own who you are. And, yeah, express desire if it comes to it, but to do it in a way that's not attached or not trying to have something that is not aligned. You know, yeah, beautiful, yeah. I'd love to switch gears a little bit and talk more about entrepreneurship. I know that we've connected as to spiritual entrepreneurs in the past on this subject, and I'm curious where you're at in your journey, your spiritual journey, with entrepreneurship, or anything you want to share around that topic.

Julian  
Yeah, so I think so my journey has been interesting. And, you know, I'm currently in the process of redoing my website, because I've kind of refined my own kind of work. You know, I started out really talking more broadly about purpose and legacy and, you know, meaning. And as I've gotten older and things have changed in the political environment, you know, I really centered more on working with the older gay men, as opposed to a wider and I do work with, you know, I do work with spiritual entrepreneurs as well, because I teach coaching, a coach, a spiritual Coaching Academy, and often end up coaching some of my students on on the same issues, right? And I think that's the thing about spiritual entrepreneurship. It it's a lot of the same challenges. It's about being visible, about being who you are, you know? And we get out there, we we hang our shingle as a spiritual entrepreneur, and all the charlatans come out of the woodwork telling us about all the ways that we need to copy their system, be this, be that, in order to be successful. And, you know, and then the social media algorithms feed us the same slop over and over and over, and it just, it just homogenizes everything. And so, you know, what I'm really learning is that, you know, I've always been a pretty opinionated and sometimes tactless person. I'm a Sagittarius, so, you know how we can be, and so I've just learned sometimes now I just speak my mind more freely, because it's what makes me stand out, you know. And maybe the algorithm doesn't love it. Maybe, you know, it's definitely goes against what all the business coaches are telling you to do, but it's aligned to who I am, and I think that the people who need what I have are going to also resonate with that.

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. What resonates for me in that is this vibrational alignment. Then it's like, the it's and it's definitely is also connected to this visibility piece, right? It's like, so part of entrepreneurship is this calling in visibility, and it's also calling in truth, right? Because if we are visible but but putting out something that's not truthful, then we're not going to be creating the vibration that's going to connect us with the people that we're meant to be working with. And so it's it's holding both of those as important and vital in how we move through the space that we are not only being visible, but we're being visible in the deepest truth that we are capable of expressing in that moment?

Julian  
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that vibrational piece is so important because so many people think that they have to do entrepreneurship a certain way, and that marketing has to look a certain way, and you really can't forge your own path if you're in that vibrational alignment and in that truth. And you know, if social media just makes you sick to your stomach, don't do it. There are lots of ways you can be seen and heard in in the market without doing social media. So you know, people need to do what lights them up and what they enjoy, because people are going to resonate with that more powerfully than if you're making yourself do something you really hate. And so I think that's super important. And the same thing about the hustle aspect of entrepreneurship, we're often here, you know, to be an entrepreneurship, you got to work, work, work, work, work, work. And you know, if you're doing that, go get a corporate job. You might as well, because you're not any freer than you were. So

Wil Fisher  
totally, yeah. Thanks for sharing those pieces. Yeah. And for me, personally, I find it seasonal. So, you know, like this summer, I've posted a little bit on social media, but I've somewhat taken a break because I've been enjoying being present in my travels, you know, at fairy camp, Destiny unplugged, and I was in France for a little while, and I've just enjoyed being in my own time and space. And now, as fall is coming back, I'm like, oh, okay, I'm ready to, like, share my voice a little more. And what are some of the things that are really juicy for me to be talking about and to be, you know, sharing with my people, and so to recognize that our our visibility, access points, can change, you know, we and we get to be in the flow of that and and that feels really important for me to be present with right now and not making myself like wrong or bad when I'm out of that type of visibility and recognizing that it's they are seasonal, these changes that I go through.

Julian  
Yeah, and I think, I think entrepreneurship is, you know, there's an evolution that happens. You know, your business changes as you grow as a person, especially if you're a solopreneur. And I think sometimes people like, I know, sometimes, especially like new coaching students, they think they've gotta, like, nail their niche right out of out of their certification program, and, like, that's who they are now, is they're the coach that coaches that. And that's so not true, because you know who you are today is not who you're going to be tomorrow. And if your business isn't growing with you, then you know you're just you're out of alignment with with the truth of who you are,

Wil Fisher  
beautiful, yeah, and it really does, allowing for that flow also allows for your soul's evolution to be continuing its path, rather than getting stuck in some kind of box. And you know, I gotta admit that sometimes it is, I don't know, uncomfortable, because there is much more uncertainty. Whereas, you know, with a corporate job, you know what you're doing, and you mostly do that for a long time with entrepreneurship, it's like you know what you're doing now and then it changes, and you have to go with that flow and trust that that change is going to be a change that creates reciprocity of service and return. And it's, yeah, it's a they both have their own challenges and perks. But I do think, as someone you know who is also on this path of evolution, it's like the the solopreneurship path, the entrepreneurship path can really serve that that journey as well?

Julian  
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I think it's such a misconception that, like, working a corporate job is more secure. You know, I spent 30 years in tech, and the tech industry, like the average tech worker experiences at least three layoffs over the course of their career. So, you know, not any more stable in many ways. And of course, with like AI and other things disrupting, like the hiring process, all these things, you know, I do think that entrepreneurship is is a really important path, and I think that it's probably a right path for many more people than realize. If. They allow themselves to really trust themselves?

Wil Fisher  
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for sharing all that. Perhaps this can be an invitation for those on the fence who are considering moving into their own, their own space. Yeah? Any anything else you want to share about human design? Going back to that topic, it's I did was noticing that you are a five, one Mani Gen and I'm a four, six. Do you happen to know any distinctions between those or what? What some of our similarities might be as many gens

Julian  
well as manifesting generators. You know, we're driven by our sacral response, but then we move quickly into initiating action once we respond to things. So that's what manifesting generators so we're designed to actually manipulate Quantum Time by finding the most efficient path to mastery. So that's why manifesting generators tend to be multi passionate people, and they tend to pick things up, and then when they're done with them, they set them aside. So you know, I'm someone who gets a new hobby. I buy all the supplies, I go hard on it for like six months, and then I may never do it again. And that's a very typical manifesting generator pattern to just have lots of interests and explore them. And they move very fast because of that. They're very creative and very quick, quick moving people,

Wil Fisher  
which just briefly to interrupt, is very aligned with what we just talked about, where our practices evolve. And,

Julian  
yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's absolutely that way. And yeah, the manifesting generators, they just, you know, they they skip steps, they experiment, they they kind of find their own path, and it's all designed to create better efficiency for the whole collective. And so that's kind of their their purpose to serve the collective is to do that and explore that. So as manifesting generators, we have a lot of that stuff in common. You know, the sacral response, the fast movement, the multitasking, the multi passions, those kinds of things. And I know you've done you've you've done drag, you've done like acting, and you talked about vocal work like so you're a coach, you know, you're very, very much a manifesting generator for my observation. And then, you know, the five, one and the four, six are profile, which ra the founder of human design called the costume of your purpose, which doesn't mean it's, it's your purpose so much. It's more about how you're, how you how you approach your purpose in life. So as a four, six, you're here more to learn personal lessons you know in this lifetime. And a four, the four is the the four lines are what we call the opportunists. They have a large network. They build a network of people, and they're really designed to have a huge impact on people who are in their network. They are natural sales people. They match people to what they need, and they match people to each other, but within their network, whereas a five, so I'll talk about six in a minute, whereas, like my first line is a five. So that actually makes my my like. Biggest lessons in this life are here to be learned from my relationships with other people. They're all trans, personal in nature and vibes. Rather than having a big network, we're more meant to be strangers of consequence. So we have impact on people who maybe don't know us as well. Come into our lives for a while. We kind of guide them through something, and then they kind of go, go their own way. And so we're more strangers of consequence. So it's a very different kind of way that we operate with others. And then you have a six line, which the six lines those people typically live their life in three phases. So up until about age 29 they start out as what we living their life as a three line, which they're designed to learn through trial and error. They kind of have this sort of chaotic process where they just let life bump into them, and they learn from what works and what doesn't. We always say for three line, there's no such thing as failure. There's just what was learned in the process mm. And then at 29 when their Saturn Return occurs, they tend to withdraw a little bit. They turn inward to kind of integrate all of that. And then their Chiron return triggers their re engagement, and it and at their re engagement, six lines, purpose is to live as a as a role model to the world of what it means to be a nine, centered, energetic being so, so they're really like, then stepping into that like role model piece. My second line is a one line, which is the investigator. So they're the people who love to research and learn and just always want to feel certain about their body of knowledge and so, and that's really like, I love to read. I love to learn new things, take classes, you know. So it really fits with with who I am. So

Wil Fisher  
very cool. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, you know, I'm 47 I'll be turning 48 in January, so Mike Kiron approaching, and I'm so curious what that's. Gonna look like for me in my my human design, all the other stuff, super resonates for me. And so I realized that we jumped into talking about human design without me introducing it. Do you want to share a little bit about what it is? I've talked about it on the podcast once or twice before, but what it is and also what you do with it to support your clients. Yeah,

Julian  
absolutely. So human design was is a revealed system is revealed to ra, ra, who in 1987 and it's a synthetic blend of astrology, the I Ching Kabbalah and the chakras. And it basically says we were nine energy centered beings, as opposed to the seven and the chakras, and using your birth information, human design creates like, basically a map of your energetic being, what rock called the vessel. And your vessel is more than just your physical form. It's also your energetic form, and it's also, like it's the it's this whole life, in a way, is your vessel, because it's all about the opportunities and the people and the things that come in and out of your life that you know are driving you towards your purpose. So So you think of your vessel is like the car that's driving you towards whatever you are meant to do here in this life and what you're meant to learn in this incarnation. And so that's your vessel. So it's, it's bigger than just the body, but human design, then, based on that blueprint, helps you understand what is authentically you at your foundation, and how are you conditioned by the energy of other people, so that you can strip away all the pieces that aren't you, and really always come back to that like keystone of like this is who I am at my root so and then the way I use it is, I'm a Human Design coach, so I primarily use it in my coaching work. I do specific human design coaching so people who want to really learn to experiment with their design and use it to maximize the work that they're doing, will work through their design and find things to over things in their design that they can use to overcome life challenges. So, you know, I used to do more like human design readings, just helping people understand their chart, but got kind of bored of that. So now I mostly like work with people who have been around human design enough to know that they really want to use it as a tool, and then coach them on how to how to optimize that

Wil Fisher  
nice. And folks can go online and get their human design pretty easily for free to just start to explore it. Yeah,

Julian  
yeah, absolutely. You can go to genetic matrix.com and they offer a free chart, so you can get it there and explore. I do still do foundation readings as part of my coaching for people who are brand new to human design. I'll get them started, and then they can choose to continue the work with me. I'm hoping later this year or early next year, to launch a group coaching program around like, integrating human design. So

Wil Fisher  
fabulous. Ooh, that sounds really juicy. Yeah, cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing all that and for all the wisdom that you've shared throughout this conversation today, I've really enjoyed dropping in with you. Any final thoughts or words you want to share for the listeners.

Julian  
Final words, I always feels like a high pressure moment, right? You want to sound

Wil Fisher  
really profound. Anything that's not your heart in this moment,

Julian  
I just Yeah, so I just think really, it's you know, everything that we've talked about today is just really about embracing all of who you are and just showing yourself that that grace and that love, it's all, you know, it's all got to start from self love first, and then you could, if you want to love, really have love out in the world, you got to love yourself first.

Wil Fisher  
Yes, amen, that's a great place to head. Thank you so much, Julian, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, yeah.